AH Question - Who is the heir to Henry VII if Arthur sires a posthumous daughter

I really don't see Henry VIII pulling a Richard III.
To me he really seems to have been a typical "It's good to be the second son of the king" sort of guy- he got to enjoy being filthy rich and having the freedom to do whatever he wanted without many of the pressures of actually being the heir.
Until he was....


Though related to this I do wonder-
what would happen if an heir/the king impregnated his wife but died before she gave birth to a son? Where would that leave the succession? Would that kid be totally eliminated from the line of succession?

Like with John I Posthomous?

Essentially they wait for his/her birth under a typical regency situation
 
Though related to this I do wonder-
what would happen if an heir/the king impregnated his wife but died before she gave birth to a son? Where would that leave the succession? Would that kid be totally eliminated from the line of succession?

It happened 2 or 3 times

In France when it happened in Middle Ages I believe there was a Regency while they waited

The same with Spain in the 19th century

When Tsar Nicholas II was gravely ill at Livadia at the turn of the 20th cenntury,, Alexandra tried to claim she would be regent for her unborn child, but the council of state ruled that if Nicholas died then his brother Michael would become Tsar

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
POD is Prince Arthur survives his initital fever at Ludlow and lives long enough to impregnate Catherine before dying a few months after OTL. Catherine delievers a healthy daughter, Princess Elizabeth Isabella, who is still alive when Henry VII dies in 1509. In this case, barring an Act of Succession by Henry, who is the immediate heir, Henry Duke of York or Princess Elizabeth? My understanding is that agnatic succession would prevail and Henry would assume the throne, but is this correct? And if Princess Elizabeth becomes Queen, how would Henry act as Regent and Heir Apparent? Richard III redux? I do not know enough to guess about the outcome, so I turn this over to those who do. Gentlemen, let the butterflies be free!

She won't be Elizabeth Isabella as that's basically Elizabeth Elizabeth

But yeah, I think it all depends on how far gone she is with the pregnancy? If its two months the dynamics will be completely different than if its eight months

Don't forget, Henry VIII was not paranoid about Plantagenets because he was mad, he was paranoid because he was insecure - on his throne.

The Tudor political settlement can probably wait a month, maybe two, under a Regency but it cannot wait six to eight months.

If the latter, Henry is going to have to take the throne to secure his dynasty's position ON the throne. Otherwise there WILL be rebellion led by those who believe the Tudors should never have succeeded in the first place

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
I'd agree that Henry ends up Lord Protector. Katherine might make a play for the Regency, but I don't see the English accepting it. Elizabeth would be the first Queen Regnant since Matilda and the anarchy still rang clear in the people's minds; the War of the Roses are remembered too: Elizabeth of York was the clear successor to Richard III, yet Henry VII was the one who became King. He still married her to legitimize his reign, but it shows even in this period the English were distrustful of female succession. I think little Elizabeth has a chance though with Katherine making enough noise, and she and Henry were quite close, so if he supports her, that would seal the dea--and I think his support would be contingent on having a say on whom the little queen marries, with intention clear she will marry one of his young sons.

I can see Katherine being appeased with a place on the council; I suppose she could also ceremoniously be named Regent with the Duke of York exercising power as Lord Protector, but the fact is, at this point in time, the Lord Protector often was the Regent. The first real "Regency" wasn't until Hannoverian times, when George IV served as Regent for incapacitated father. I suppose it could be arranged as such, but I find that doubtful. Henry as Lord Protector and Katherine with a ceremonial seat seems more likely.

As for our Lord Protector, he's going to want to contract a match as quickly as possible. A French alliance could be possible through Navarre -- Queen Catherine had a multitude of children. I unfortunately can't think of many other princesses off the top of my head --possibly Françoise of Alençon upon the death of her first husband? But given the need to marry quickly, he might even seek out a match amongst the German principalities. Unfortnately it's quite hard finding a princess close to his age: his future son is already going to be some years younger than Katherine's daughter.
 
I don't think he would have done this. When Henry was young he regarded himself as the quintessential 'parfit gentil knight', and much of his - I guess ego, to use an anachronistic term - was bound up in this chivalrous image. To kill a niece would be far too much of a blow to his self-image.

I suspect that with Catherine of Aragon presumably unavailable, wily old Henry VII would have married young Henry off at age fifteen or so to a French princess, hoping that the boy would sire a son who could in the fullness of time be married to his cousin.
Catherine of Aragon wouldn't be unavailable.Henry Tudor did acquire two dispensations to marry her.One of the dispensations was for marrying her in the event she did consummate her marriage with his older brother.
 
What would Henry VII, who after all is still king when all this happen, push for? OTL Henry VIII might have considered himself a perfect knight, but what did his father think of him? Any chance he might push his son into the Church with renewed vigour, exactly as to increase his granddaughter's chances?

I am thinking of a private conversation between father and son, with Henry VII saying something on the lines of "Get in the church, be a regent when I pass away, and you'll be the Archbishop of Canterbury *and* the Regent - you'll be have the power for years and years, and still retain much of it after Elizabeth becomes an adult. Get her married to someone controllable and get her to make you the Chancellor. Cardinals today can have all kinds of fun in their life, look at those guys in Rome, wink wink".

Then a decade or so afterwards you get the Protestant Reformation and Cardinal Henry becomes the target of Lutheran propaganda as the ultimate example of a corrupt churchman.
 
What would Henry VII, who after all is still king when all this happen, push for? OTL Henry VIII might have considered himself a perfect knight, but what did his father think of him? Any chance he might push his son into the Church with renewed vigour, exactly as to increase his granddaughter's chances?

I am thinking of a private conversation between father and son, with Henry VII saying something on the lines of "Get in the church, be a regent when I pass away, and you'll be the Archbishop of Canterbury *and* the Regent - you'll be have the power for years and years, and still retain much of it after Elizabeth becomes an adult. Get her married to someone controllable and get her to make you the Chancellor. Cardinals today can have all kinds of fun in their life, look at those guys in Rome, wink wink".

Then a decade or so afterwards you get the Protestant Reformation and Cardinal Henry becomes the target of Lutheran propaganda as the ultimate example of a corrupt churchman.
Highly doubt it.Miser King will probably know that his dynasty is going to end sooner or later if that happened.I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a dispensation to pair up his son with his granddaughter.
Henry won't enter the church because there is a chance that she will die of natural causes before mothering an heir.
 
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