AH: Medieval Scottish-Wank

When in Medieval History (500-1300) would the best opportunity be for Scotland to dominate the British Isles?
 
When in Medieval History (500-1300) would the best opportunity be for Scotland to dominate the British Isles?

Two real chances.

During the Baron's War against King John, you could have England divided between the Scots and the French if John, well, doesn't die so damn soon.

Or earlier, there was a battle I think in the 7th century that was really the last chance to curtail Anglo-Saxon dominion on the British Isles that was led by the Scottish... Can't remember what it was called though
 
Two real chances.

During the Baron's War against King John, you could have England divided between the Scots and the French if John, well, doesn't die so damn soon.

Or earlier, there was a battle I think in the 7th century that was really the last chance to curtail Anglo-Saxon dominion on the British Isles that was led by the Scottish... Can't remember what it was called though

I think for the latter point you might mean the Battle of Brunanburh in 927. If Athelstan had lost that one badly then Northern England would be very different – as would Scotland.
Alternately if you want a different Scotland then no English victory at the Battle of Chester.
 
I think for the latter point you might mean the Battle of Brunanburh in 927. If Athelstan had lost that one badly then Northern England would be very different – as would Scotland.
Alternately if you want a different Scotland then no English victory at the Battle of Chester.

That's the one! :)
 
Here's a thought; can we get a more successful invasion of Ireland by the Bruces, so that at least Northern Ireland is under Scotch control?
 
Here's a thought; can we get a more successful invasion of Ireland by the Bruces, so that at least Northern Ireland is under Scotch control?

You could probably put all of Ireland under Scottish control with an early enough POD. If the Irish hadn't fallen apart so completely after the death of Brian Boru they would have eventually gone looking for royal marriages outside of Ireland and Scotland would be the first placed they'd look. A more stable Ireland with a strong Scottish claim to the throne would be a prime candidate for a United Kingdom led by Scotland.
 
Or earlier, there was a battle I think in the 7th century that was really the last chance to curtail Anglo-Saxon dominion on the British Isles that was led by the Scottish
Unless the Scots control southern England they are not going to dominate the British Isles because they don't have the resources. The reason for this is that the best agricultural land is there and so locals can raise larger armies. Victory in a battle or two is not going to be enough because the dwellers in that area whether Catuvellaunian, Roman, English or Norman will eventually drive the Picts/Scot back north.
 
Unless the Scots control southern England they are not going to dominate the British Isles because they don't have the resources.

THis. Maybe a scotland that is thoroughly occupied by the norse - an extension of the Danelaw. So that we have a norse-celtic culture that controls a large portion of "England?"
 
Unless the Scots control southern England they are not going to dominate the British Isles because they don't have the resources. The reason for this is that the best agricultural land is there and so locals can raise larger armies. Victory in a battle or two is not going to be enough because the dwellers in that area whether Catuvellaunian, Roman, English or Norman will eventually drive the Picts/Scot back north.

Lots of nice agriculture doesn't do very good when it isn't unified. In fact, it just starts to look tasty. If divided, which the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms were for a very long time, against a unified Norse-Celtic front, something that rarely happened but did at Brunanburh, you have a very different situation.

Should the Scots/Norse/Brits/Picts win at this battle, it is an opportunity (arguably the last real one too) to check the Anglo-Saxon advance. Should the allied army against the Anglo-Saxons succeed at this moment, preferably with Athelstan's death in battle, you would see York return to Norse control (if not claimed by the Scots themselves), and probably a divided England between Mercia and Wessex, not to mention the armies marauding southward. You also have a stronger British/Welsh position in centuries to come.

A politically divided England is a weak England, especially against a united Scotland. And we're talking about the 900s AD, the height of the Viking Age. You don't think that at the first sign of weakness from England, a Danish army isn't going to make for those wonderful farmlands you were talking about?
 
Lots of nice agriculture doesn't do very good when it isn't unified.
Unified or ununified Southern English agriculture is more productive than Scottish agriculture. That means irrepective whoever they are there will be more more warriors, period.

A politically divided England is a weak England, especially against a united Scotland. And we're talking about the 900s AD, the height of the Viking Age. You don't think that at the first sign of weakness from England, a Danish army isn't going to make for those wonderful farmlands you were talking about?
So what, it is not under Scottish control. And bear in mind Scotland was not exactly unified. Just weaking her neighbour does not resolve this.

Moreover it already has Norse to the west on the Isles and Ireland and to the east across the North Sea. Now without the English to contain them it have them to the south. Dominate the British Isles in this position? Unlikely. In fact the Scots will be lucky to play second fiddle.
 
Top