AH Map Challenge-Europe, Defeat at Salamis

Your challenge, is to provide a map of Europe any year from 1900 to today if Persia had one the battle of Salamis. Thought this would be kind of fun, unearthed my old school project on the Peloponnesian War and thought that something of that nature would be cool.

GO
 
Physically impossible. The butterflys mean that Democracy never spreads and Islam can't come about. We've lost empirical thought and the scientific method. Persia will fall, but who can know who will topple it.
 
Physically impossible. The butterflys mean that Democracy never spreads and Islam can't come about. We've lost empirical thought and the scientific method. Persia will fall, but who can know who will topple it.

Are you so sure?

The idea of democracy may have come through mainly from greek text IOTL, but what makes you so sure it won't come from celt, germanic or nordic assemblies ITTL?


I'm even less sure about diret links from ancient greece to empirical thought and scientific method. Why are you sure they cannot come, maybe even earlier than OTL ITTL, with butterflies ensuring that history is nothing like OTL?

I'm not even going to try understand what Islam has to do with the rest.
 
First, this should be in the pre-1900 forum, since that is when the POD is.

Second, this is pretty much impossible because you've butterflied any of the nations that exist today. You could draw completely random lines across a map and no one could argue.
 
A more sensible and interesting question might of been what the world would of looked like 200-300 years later perhaps ( in just the med )... for example I think you could maybe, just maybe expect the Carthaginians to of captured Sicily for themselves since Athens may of been relegated as a naval power?
 
Most of Greek Philosophy came after the Persian Wars, and it can be quite easily shown that much of Islam is, fundamentaly, based on, or heavily influenced by, Classical Greek Philosophy. Thus if Greece no longer exists in a manner that will allow the philosphers to prosper, Islam as we know it no longer exists. To quote Tom Holland in his book Persian Fire where he talks about how the Battle of Marathon and the Persian Wars were the origin of the concept of a battle between East and West (and how it continues today with the war on Terror): Had the Athenians lost the Battle of Marathon, and suffered the obliteration of their city... there would be no Plato-and Without Plato and the collosal shadow he cast on all subsequent theologies, it is unlikely that there would have been an Islam to inspire bin Laden. Later we have this quote: Although the defeat of Xerxes was certainly decisive in giving the Greeks, and therefore all Europeans, their own distincitiveness, the effect of the Persian Wars cannot be rigidly confined within the notions of East and West. Monotheism and the notion of a universal state, democracy and totalitarianism can all thrace their origins to this time.

We've also lost the Parthenon, and will see the gradual extiction of the classical orders.
 
Declaring the end of democracy if Persia takes Greece is a bold claim that demand more evidence than typically given.


In fact, when Mardonius marched to Greece with his army in 492 BC, he removed tyrants from power and installed democrat rulers in the Ionian cities. Persia didn't care what kind of government cities in its satrapies had as long as tribute was paid on time.
 
Physically impossible. The butterflys mean that Democracy never spreads and Islam can't come about. We've lost empirical thought and the scientific method. Persia will fall, but who can know who will topple it.

The Mongols.

It's ALWAYS The Mongols.

Most dystopic world possible, but it'd be the Mongols.
 
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