AH Challenge:

For some reason only the RVN adopts the name Vietnam.

The Diem bros. are a little bit more 'ornery & can't be made to suffer an 'accident.' Sterner, more well-publicized methods are then employed by Washington...
 

JohnJacques

Banned
I read something interesting which asserted that PMCs could have won the Vietnam War..... might take a looser definition of "win"
 
Have a non-Nixon president, most likely democrat, that can convince the US public and the chatting class the war is worth fighting. Vietnamise the war and be able to continue the support indefinatly.
 

Nikephoros

Banned
PMC's?

I read something interesting which asserted that PMCs could have won the Vietnam War..... might take a looser definition of "win"

What do you mean by PMC? The conventional concept of the PMC didn't exist until the formation of Executive Outcomes in the late 70's-early 80's
 

Hnau

Banned
I think that Doctor Manhattan would be a crucial asset.

Okay, okay just had to throw that in. :) How about the French agree to the American's offer of two atomic bombs to break the Vietnamese siege of Dienbienphu in 1954? That could possibly lead to victory, but who knows what kind of effects that could create amongst the people of Vietnam, the French, the Americans, the Soviets and Chinese, amongst the people of the entire world. It could backfire... either by inciting the Vietnamese to oppose the 'brutal imperialists' or the Americans to withdraw from a 'dishonarable war'.

Abandoning the Strategic Hamlet Program would be a great idea. That created anger and disillusionment amongst a huge part of the rural population.

Hmmm... otherwise... otherwise it would get a lot more complicated.
 

Nikephoros

Banned
Abandoning the Strategic Hamlet Program would be a great idea. That created anger and disillusionment amongst a huge part of the rural population.

Actually, if it had been give proper resources and time, it would have worked.
 

JohnJacques

Banned
What do you mean by PMC? The conventional concept of the PMC didn't exist until the formation of Executive Outcomes in the late 70's-early 80's


That, I believe was the point. Someone was arguing PMCs were a big part of the "victory" in Iraq and that if something like them had existed during Vietnam, Vietnam would have become an Iraq.
 
Nukes. Nuke the Soviets and China over Cuba in 1962. Then the US can pretty much declare itself the Terran Empire.

If the conflict can't be taken to the strategic level, it's more or less a lost cause, unless the Americans use really nasty methods.
 

Sachyriel

Banned
Nukes. Nuke the Soviets and China over Cuba in 1962. Then the US can pretty much declare itself the Terran Empire.

If the conflict can't be taken to the strategic level, it's more or less a lost cause, unless the Americans use really nasty methods.

Like biological, chemical or orbital warfare?
 

Nikephoros

Banned
So does genocide. It works, it's just terrible.

Actually, the Strategic Hamlet program was good for many reasons.

It made the Vietnamese feel more safe because the hamlets were better defended. The feeling of safety usually was more important than the feeling of losing your land.

It would have lessened the VC's ability to gain leverage by terror.

One disadvantage though: It became harder for the average Vietnamese to grow their own food.
 

Sachyriel

Banned
Actually, the Strategic Hamlet program was good for many reasons.

It made the Vietnamese feel more safe because the hamlets were better defended. The feeling of safety usually was more important than the feeling of losing your land.

It would have lessened the VC's ability to gain leverage by terror.

One disadvantage though: It became harder for the average Vietnamese to grow their own food.

To succeed, a military operation must meet it's goals. The United States apparently didn't think the SHP met the goals they laid out for it. Therefore, we can see it is not a perfect tactic for that theatre in that era.

Not trying to say the military screwed it up, not by a long shot. But if the American Military couldn't pull it off after working at it, what chance would another nation have if they tried to do the same?

Maybe the Americans should have been concerned about hearts and minds in the seventies.
 
For some reason only the RVN adopts the name Vietnam.

The Diem bros. are a little bit more 'ornery & can't be made to suffer an 'accident.' Sterner, more well-publicized methods are then employed by Washington...

My point being that the U.S. beating the Saigon government in a 'Vietnam War' is less unrealistic than America adopting the necessary methods to beat Uncle Ho's regime.

OTL's conflict wasn't classified a 'brushfire war' for nothing.
 
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