AH Challenge: Yugoslavia stays one

The Fall of Yugoslavia more or less coincided with the Fall of the Soviet Union. Both were more or less inevitable after 1985.

Funny how hardly anybody noticed that in 1985. Of course, the demise of the Sovjet empire faciliated the break-up of Yugoslavia and put additional stress on its economy. But I wouldn't say that it is a "if X then Y"-kind of causal relationship.

By being authoritarian, it wouldn't need to be.

True. But it would be a recipe for failure. Even the authority of the authoritarians can be questioned. Also, we are not dealing with the interwar period but the challenge is a surviving Yugoslavia in 1990-2010. I understand a royalist-Serbian-authoritarian regime in this context?
It is not completely unthinkable, but I cannot imagine it without civil unrest in several regions, economic stagnation and international isolation (at least concerning its European neighbours- it could foster good relations with China and Russia). Once again, Yugoslavia is neither China nor Russia.

Croatia and Slovenia immediately declare independence. The others shortly follow. "Za kralja i otadzbinu" - "for King and Fatherland," was a distinctly Serbian motto.

Well, I wouldn't have had the idea of putting a king at the helm of a surviving Yugoslavia without your input. However, would the Slovenes and Croats be in the position to do so in 1974 or 1980?

Funny that you didn't point out the paradox of a socialist kingdom.

Woah there, Vojvodina, too? Even moderate Montenegrin Serbs such as myself would be in open revolt. :p

Why do you revolt against a blessing in disguise? In a federal framework, having another Serbian-dominated regional division just adds to your influence. You only need a Greater Serbia if you wish to secede. Period.

@Komeyta.

I agree. This kind of defense scheme means begging for trouble and greatly faciliated Crotian and Slovenian independance.
 

abc123

Banned
A power sharing agreement between Serbia and Croatia perhaps. Bosnia would then be surrounded and not allowed to leave, Montenegro would stay too. This leaves Macedonia and Slovenia that could possibly escape, however Slovenia is the only one that could perhaps leave. Im not an expert though, thats just off the top of my head


X

So simple, so effective.
;)
 
Except in the meantime it has done tons of atrocities and killed a LOT of people. This is almost advocating genocide.:rolleyes:
You havent posted any real refutes to my arguement besides "Serbia's an evil bastard." and "If it involves genocide its not Yugoslavia". None of which really say that im wrong.

Did you read the op? It said keep Yugoslavia as one. Which is what i suggested (well its two pieces, but what can i say Slovenia is tough, you want to find a way for Serbia to beat them? I dont care enough).

And you said if Slovenia leaves then they will all leave, dont you think the POD of not having the TO was for a reason? Croatia loses, Bosnia loses. They dont leave when they lose.

And your saying i encourage genocide? What are we on personal attacks now? I could start breaking out genocide and balkan jokes if you want. :) Although those are sorta tasteless and i would prefer not to have to do it just to let you believe that your right and im a terrible person. Do people that make tls about Germany winning ww2 advocate genocide? Did you read anything in my post that sounded like "Oh hey you know what would be great? If Serbia went and killed all the Bosniaks and Croats dont you guys think that would be so awesome? Yeah who else thinks thats a good idea? And i even have a perfect POD for how it could have happened. Wow im such a cool genocidal maniac."

I can accept criticism of why the idea wont work but all you have said is that genocide happens. Sure, sure maybe in that tl Serbia really does go overboard and kills ALL Bosniaks and Croats, but maybe they dont.

Im not defending genocide or denying it. I admit that it happened and that its bad. I know Serbia did lots of bad things during the war, but thats not what my post was about dammit.
 
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abc123

Banned
Your challenge, should you choose to accept it, is to keep this multiethnic state intact until the present, preferably with a post-1945 PoD. Any ideas?

IMHO, it would be very important to introduce somehow a democracy in Yugoslavia, because I think that would be enough to make Yugoslavian-post1974.-style federalism acceptable for all nations and republics.
;)
 
You havent posted any real refutes to my arguement besides "Serbia's an evil bastard." and "If it involves genocide its not Yugoslavia". None of which really say that im wrong.

Dont make me laugh. Your "argument" was Serbia winning the wars. If Serbia wins, it isnt a surviving Yugoslavia, its an enlarged Serbia. How difficult is this to understand? If you want Yugoslavia to survive, you have to prevent the war.

And dont even try to make me look like a Serb hater. All sides did terribble things, but with what you are suggesting only one side is going to commit atrocities with impunity.

And you said if Slovenia leaves then they will all leave, dont you think the POD of not having the TO was for a reason? Croatia loses, Bosnia loses. They dont leave when they lose.
This is assuming the point of the wars was keeping Yugoslavia together, in which case you would actually have a point. Except then all those ethnic cleansings, atrocities and nationalistic rethoric would be rather pointless.

Do people that make tls about Germany winning ww2 advocate genocide?
Exactly why there are few people that even dare to write this scenario. And even then they go to great lengths to make Germany win and prevent the atrocities that would follow.

Did you read anything in my post that sounded like "Oh hey you know what would be great? If Serbia went and killed all the Bosniaks and Croats dont you guys think that would be so awesome?
The conduct of the Serbian army speaks volumes for itself. Letting them win is basically saying this.

I can accept criticism of why the idea wont work but all you have said is that genocide happens. Sure, sure maybe in that tl Serbia really does go overboard and kills ALL Bosniaks and Croats, but maybe they dont.
They tried to do so OTL. What makes you think they wont try the same with almost nothing in their way?
 

DAMIENEVIL

Banned
change the education system in the country and then move the populations around so no one group has any supremacy and so the cultures will melt and blend in with each other and then promote an over arching different culture of tito communism with a different language then any of the balkan nations.

Do this and the culture of those in charge changes and they adapt and so dont want to go their own way when the soviet union falls
 
Dont make me laugh. Your "argument" was Serbia winning the wars. If Serbia wins, it isnt a surviving Yugoslavia, its an enlarged Serbia. How difficult is this to understand? If you want Yugoslavia to survive, you have to prevent the war.

Ar, as I said before, win in Sloveniaand hold resttogether with force. Croats are not going anywhere then and neither are Bosniacs, both were unprepared and real display of real power makes them toe the line.
 
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