AH Challenge: World War in the 1860s

Exactly what it says. Provide a POD for a World War in the 1860s with as little butterflies as possible. The ACW is certainly a likely candidate. Maybe if Britain helped America instead, we could see a Confederate-French-Spanish Alliance againt an American-British-Russian Alliance.​
 
What do you mean by World War, you could argue that the 7 Years War was a World War as the field of conflict was considerably larger than WW1 or do you mean mass industrialised conflict?
 
Exactly what it says. Provide a POD for a World War in the 1860s with as little butterflies as possible. The ACW is certainly a likely candidate. Maybe if Britain helped America instead, we could see a Confederate-French-Spanish Alliance againt an American-British-Russian Alliance.​

I really can't see an Anglo-Russian alliance so soon after the Crimean War. Also, Britain supported the Confederacy rather than the Union. So an Anglo-French-Confederate alliance is far more plausable. Russia might support the Union for revenge against the British and French, but this would force Russia to fight a naval war which it had no hope of winning. Also, the Russians were almost bankrupt at this time and I don't think they would want to risk losing Alaska.
I don't think Britain-France-CSA vs USA would be a world war either. Since the US navy at this time was quite pathetic and certainly not capable of threatening either the British or French empires. The US navy would certainly be destroyed very quickly by the overwhelming might of the British and French navies. So the war would be contained within North America for sure.
A war between Britain and France on the other hand would almost certainly be played out on a global scale. As these were the only two truely global powers at the time. I'm sure it won't take much digging to discover a possible flashpoint between the two countries in the 1860's.
 
CSA-Britain-France against Prussia-USA alliance. Germans kick French ass early. Britain has to pull resources from North America to fight the Germans somewhere. Russia and Turkey settle their differences while everyone else is preoccupied. Would that count?
 
I think that Bismark was too shrewd to try to take on Britain and France at the same time. Don't forget, in the 1860's Prussia also faced strong challenges from Austria, Denmark, and Poland. And the Prussia which defeated France in 1870/71 was far larger and more powerful than the one which existed in the early 1860's.
Also, the definition of a world war is one which involved ALL the great powers at the time. So a true world war would have to involve Great Britain, France, Russia, China, and the USA. Coincidentally these are still the greatest powers in the world today!
 
I don't think Britain-France-CSA vs USA would be a world war either. Since the US navy at this time was quite pathetic and certainly not capable of threatening either the British or French empires. The US navy would certainly be destroyed very quickly by the overwhelming might of the British and French navies. So the war would be contained within North America for sure.
The USA could build powerful navy from scratch, and do it quickly. To prevent them from doing that, the British and the French would need to occupy New England ports and New York. Are you sure they had enough soldiers and landing crafts for such actions?
A war between Britain and France on the other hand would almost certainly be played out on a global scale. As these were the only two truely global powers at the time. I'm sure it won't take much digging to discover a possible flashpoint between the two countries in the 1860's.
For example, Ottoman Lebanon in 1860 (the UK supported quasi-Muslim sect of Druzes, the French Empire armed Maronite Catholics; later both nations intervened directly and established peace; sounds familiar, eh?). It would be plausible enough for two rivals to intervene without previously agreed peacemaking plan and to enter Lebanese conflict on opposite sides.
 
They could still count but besides the north american theater, which would be very similar to the civil war, i doubt the rest would be a mass industrialized conflict as where the world wars.

We could have something as a Great North American War centered around the US Civil War and the French intervention in Mexico. If you can intertwine both conflicts deep enough it can develop into one big conflict.
One one side the French the Confederacy and Imperial Mexico (hopefully with the English joining at some point) on the other the USA and Republican Mexico and well Prussia can be a candidate. As everyone else is busy it goes in and opens a front against France but I don't think this front could develop into a mass industrialized war no one in Europe (or the world at this point) is ready for it.
 
The USA could build powerful navy from scratch, and do it quickly. To prevent them from doing that, the British and the French would need to occupy New England ports and New York. Are you sure they had enough soldiers and landing crafts for such actions?

Actually, the USA had not reached its full industrial potential yet and was still mostly agricultural. The iron and coal deposits around the Great Lakes were only discovered in the late 1860's and began to be utilized in the 1870's. And it would take the Americans a long time to catch up with the Royal Navy, both in terms of technology and sheer size. And a sudden build up of the US navy would certainly not go unoticed by the British.
Also, the British and French would not need to land large numbers of troops to capture the Union ports. Firstly, the Union armies were concentrated to the south, fighting the confederates. Second, the Union's poorly trained, poorly equipped, and ill-disciplined troops would be unlikely to pose much of a challenge to professional, battle-hardened British and French troops with massive naval support attacking coastal cities.
 
You'd have Russia more likely to ally itself with the US than Prussia.

With a US/Russia and CSA/Britain/France you'd probably see the Ottomans throw themselves into the British alliance to grab back some land. Didn't Poland rebel during this time anyways? That could get Prussia involved against Russia which may prompt Austria to get involved.
 
Second, the Union's poorly trained, poorly equipped, and ill-disciplined troops would be unlikely to pose much of a challenge to professional, battle-hardened British and French troops with massive naval support attacking coastal cities.

The depends. 1861 or 1865?

In 1861, you could say the US's military wasn't all that powerful, but 1865 is a different matter.
 
You'd have Russia more likely to ally itself with the US than Prussia.

With a US/Russia and CSA/Britain/France you'd probably see the Ottomans throw themselves into the British alliance to grab back some land. Didn't Poland rebel during this time anyways? That could get Prussia involved against Russia which may prompt Austria to get involved.

And now we truely have a world war! Most likely result: British-French-Confederate-Prussian victory. Due to their massive naval, financial, and industrial supremacy
 
You'd have Russia more likely to ally itself with the US than Prussia.

With a US/Russia and CSA/Britain/France you'd probably see the Ottomans throw themselves into the British alliance to grab back some land. Didn't Poland rebel during this time anyways? That could get Prussia involved against Russia which may prompt Austria to get involved.

Poland rebelled against everyone in 1863. I think this was the January uprising.
 
Well the US, Russia and Austria vs CSA, Britain, France, Prussia and the Ottoman Empire... not a very even war at all.

More I think about that, Austria would probably just let Prussia beat up on Russia while the Turks press them on the south, they'd have too much to lose in a war like that.
 
No not very even, at least on paper anyway. The US civil war was a close-run thing, with the Conferderacy being surprisingly strong and innovative. With British and French support (even if that support was just naval/financial) the balance would be tipped in favour of the Confederates. The Russians aren't going to be of much support to the Union as the Royal Navy would prevent them landing troops in large numbers, even in Alaska. The French and Prussian armies would also overwhelm Austria and Russia on the European mainland. Meaning that Britain would not have to be tied down on the Continent and concentrate most of it's military muscle against the Union.
 
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