AH Challenge: Union-Confederate Alliance.

What chain of event's could force an alliance between the Union and the Confederacy?
 
Well, first you need to the south to win the war. There are number of ways to do it(and no need to discuss them all here). If there are no wars between the two of them afterwards I can see them becoming friends in the 20th century. However if they go to war sometime between the end of the civil war and 1900, then they are far less likely to become allies.
 

NothingNow

Banned
Well, first you need to the south to win the war. There are number of ways to do it(and no need to discuss them all here). If there are no wars between the two of them afterwards I can see them becoming friends in the 20th century. However if they go to war sometime between the end of the civil war and 1900, then they are far less likely to become allies.
Yeah, Something like WW2 or the like could do it. but it'd be a fairly uncomfortable Alliance, like the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact.
 
No Civil war.

They break apart peacefully, understanding that it's for their best to be separate from each other, their differences are too great, but all is not lost, they can still be friends.
 
Well...if you consider the UK to be the "Union" in this scenario...yes, it's possible...

Or, the Race invades in the middle of TL-191's WW2.

Now, seriously:
It depends a lot on how the Civil War goes. If it's an early CSA victory, like no Special Order 191 being found or the Trent Incident blowing up into a war, then the US will have a clear sense of bing beaten and might, maybe, seek detente with the South. If it's a McClellan wins in 1864 and makes peace scenario, there's no way. The US public will feel (rightly) that the Union was winning the war and ask why the job wasn't finished and all those dead died in vain. There will be a rematch very soon in such scenario. And the US will win the way it won OTL: sheer size.
 
(In response to RMcD)
One thing that seems to be overlooked by most people when considering "peaceful secession" PODs is the immediate after effect that, if they were allowed to secede peacefully, there would be no Fort Sumter deal, which would in turn create a Confederacy smaller than OTL. A very shitty map I just made depicting thus:

confed.PNG

Frankly, I think such an event is infinitely more interesting than most generic CSA wins TLs because you deprive them of (IMO) their most industrialized areas. And I have to wonder how such a Confederacy would develop, without Tennessee, Arkansas, North Carolina, or Virginia. Also, where would they put their capital? Montgomery? (Since we're assuming peaceful secession)

confed.PNG
 

mowque

Banned
Frankly, I think such an event is infinitely more interesting than most generic CSA wins TLs because you deprive them of (IMO) their most industrialized areas. And I have to wonder how such a Confederacy would develop, without Tennessee, Arkansas, North Carolina, or Virginia. Also, where would they put their capital? Montgomery? (Since we're assuming peaceful secession)

Texas will dominate as time goes on. New Orleans will also be a huge influence. They could build Alabama up as some industrialization.
 
What chain of event's could force an alliance between the Union and the Confederacy?

Don't know. Its my personal belief that the US would have accepted the loss of the South and not tried to reabsorb it at some later date. However, I also very much suspect the South would maintain slavery as long as it possibly could-which would get them into trouble rather quickly, since IIRC the only other slaveholding nation in the world would be Brazil. Most of the world would regard Confederate slavery as a violation of human rights and a relic of a bygone era, and it would become a kind of late 19th/early 20th century equivalent of Apartied South Africa, possibly subject to some kind of economic sanctions. They'd probably give up sometime in the 1910's-1920's, and relations would probably improve.
 

NothingNow

Banned
Texas will dominate as time goes on. New Orleans will also be a huge influence. They could build Alabama up as some industrialization.

Yeah, OTL's Birmingham will likely be the center of CSA industry in that sort TL. But in general TTL's CSA will have an economy centered around Resource Extraction and Agriculture. Since everyone of it's states has some mix of Coal, Oil, Phosphates (used in fertilizers), Salt and/or Iron, and the Gulf states can also Grow things like Citrus, Cotton, and Sugar Cane, with Bananas, Coffee, and other tropical crops being possibilities in FL (possibly in parts of LA and TX as well). And there's Feral Cattle everywhere. Alabama, Texas and Louisiana will be (individually) very powerful and South Carolina and Georgia might be seen as Odd, and not exactly "confederate".

Florida will end-up serving as the training ground for the inevitable conquest of Cuba, other wise it'll be Texas with more (and nastier) Swamps and Six-shooters replaced by Shotguns.
 
Didn't anyone read Harry Harrison's Stars & Stripes series? The UK interferes and then burns Mobile to the ground in a case of mistaken identity. Then North and South Unites agains the Imperialist UK and proceeds to take Canada and whip British Ass. :D

I already this Book. :D
 

Vivisfugue

Banned
Assuming a CSA-wins scenario without foreign intervention (no Trent incident war or TL-191 style UK-French mediation to end the war) both US and CS remain Atlantic powers. For the rest of the 19th century, that means both countries will remain tied to British (and to a lesser extent, French and German) capital; both will need to maintain good trade relations in order to build railroads and industrialise. Therefore, once German and British interests collide, as they almost inevitably must in the early 20th century, both North American nations would probably come in on the side of the Allies. Assuming the war still starts in 1914, the CSA would probably declare war in 1915 or so (a la Italy and the Ottomans), have its army frittered away by the British in Gallipoli-style sideshows, with the USA following more reluctantly in 1917 or so for the deathblow against Germany on the Western Front. Cooperation in the war (especially in contrast with the European powers) might lead to a more permanent alignment of military, economic and diplomatic interests in the Old World between the two powers.
 
I like your scenario up until why does America entering on the Aliied side? why are they NOT a Central Power?


Why should they be?

If industrial etc development is anything like OTL, then Britain and France were their best customers even before 1914, and the blockade of Germany will reinforce that. As democracies (well, for whites anyway) they have more in common with GB and France than with Germany, and both US and CS will object pretty strongly to having their citizens drowned when liners are torpedoed. Admittedly, both will also gripe about the Allied blockade, but that doesn't "bite" as hard as the u-boat war.

In short, WW1, if anything like OTL's, is likely to push the US and CS closer together, and if they intervene at all it will pretty certainly be on the Allied side.
 
Didn't anyone read Harry Harrison's Stars & Stripes series? The UK interferes and then burns Mobile to the ground in a case of mistaken identity. Then North and South Unites agains the Imperialist UK and proceeds to take Canada and whip British Ass.




ah yes, the biggest pile of poo ever to be published
 
What chain of event's could force an alliance between the Union and the Confederacy?

Good business sense and common ties. When the 'special relationship' between Britain and the US is discussed the same phrase could probably be extended to the US and CS. They are two nations that sprang from the same shared heritage and that is not counting the thousands of families that would have members on either side of the border.
 
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