With a PoD after 1800, how could we end with a situation where the territory of the Ottoman Empire is divided into two states, both of which consider themselves to be the true Ottoman Empire? What events might cause this to happen? And how might the division occur? Would it be north-south, east-west or something else? And where might the capitals of each of the two empires be?
AH Challenge: Two Ottoman Empires
- Thread starter Tony Jones
- Start date
Should Persia resurge against the Ottomans and take much of Asia Minor, cleaving the Empire in two... One brother remains in Constantinople, in charge of the European section, while the Sultan flees to Egypt?
I suppose a prince of the imperial dynasty COULD end up vizier of Egypt - Mehmed Ali's hereditary rule there was hardly the original plan of the sultan, so if we get rid of him earlier, and end up appointing a member of the dynasty, perhaps as a last desperate move to bring the province under proper control, then later moves towards Egyptian autonomy could end up in effective indpendence. Something like the deposition of Abdulaziz could spark a revolt in Egypt against Abdul Hamid who is seen as usurping the throne, and this could lead to a rival sultan in Cairo
Best Regards
Grey Wolf
Best Regards
Grey Wolf
All sounds quite reasonable to me. Presumably the European and Arabian Ottoman Empires (as they might come to be seen as), even if they started close for the reasons mentioned above, grows apart over time due to their focuses being on different things, until they become enemies...
Abdul Hadi Pasha
Banned
That's not possible. Abdul Hamid was considered by a very few people as an usurper not against Abdul Aziz but against his brother Murad, who was in no mental condition to rule. But in any case, the Egyptian ruler's legitimacy was based entirely on his status as deputy of the Sultan.
The change of Sultans was handled smoothly with an absence of violence with overwhelming consensus in the bureaucracy, military, and populace in general. In any case, if some bizarre set of circumstances made this type of scenario possible, the Powers would step in to enforce the Status Quo.
Finally, the chances of any Sultan appointing one of his own relatives as ruler of Egypt, which would provice a fine powerbase to challenge his control over the entire empire, is zero, beyond what the reaction of the powers would be.
The change of Sultans was handled smoothly with an absence of violence with overwhelming consensus in the bureaucracy, military, and populace in general. In any case, if some bizarre set of circumstances made this type of scenario possible, the Powers would step in to enforce the Status Quo.
Finally, the chances of any Sultan appointing one of his own relatives as ruler of Egypt, which would provice a fine powerbase to challenge his control over the entire empire, is zero, beyond what the reaction of the powers would be.
Abdul Hadi Pasha
Banned
I don't view this as a possibility. The legitimacy of the empire was based upon 1) The Caliphate, 2) Control of the holy cities 3) Control of the Capital and 4) the Dynasty. There's just no way to split these.
If there's two empires somehow in balance, nobody has a real claim to the Caliphate, and any geographic split is likely to leave on in control of the Holy Cities and one in control of the Capital.
Finally, splitting the empire would leave both halves way too weak to survive.
If you would allow a POD before 1800 it could be done. For instance, after the Battle of Ankara the empire was split between rival princes with one in Europe and the other in Asia. You could conceivably end up with two different empires in this case, one Balkan, and one Middle Eastern, but these would be much different states than the classical Ottoman Empire that developed in the first half of the 16th c.
If there's two empires somehow in balance, nobody has a real claim to the Caliphate, and any geographic split is likely to leave on in control of the Holy Cities and one in control of the Capital.
Finally, splitting the empire would leave both halves way too weak to survive.
If you would allow a POD before 1800 it could be done. For instance, after the Battle of Ankara the empire was split between rival princes with one in Europe and the other in Asia. You could conceivably end up with two different empires in this case, one Balkan, and one Middle Eastern, but these would be much different states than the classical Ottoman Empire that developed in the first half of the 16th c.