AH Challenge. The re-birth of East Prussia

I know a guy whose mother came from East Prussia, around the Masurian Lakes region, and once, in the late '80s, I told him that if we ever lived to see the end of the Soviet Union, I hoped that at least the Russian half of East Prussia would be returned to Germany. Of course, his mother's ancestral lands were in Polish territory, but still. Of course, I never dreamed then that the end of the SU was but a scant few years away.
So the challenge is to create an even more dramatic implosion of the SU in December 1991, so that the newly emerging Russia is in no condition to hang on to the Kaliningrad Oblast, and Germany can send in eager settlers, mainly children and grandchildren of former EP residents, to try to re-colonise the area in question. Extra points if they can ease the Russian residents out without the rest of the world screaming about ethnic cleansing.
 
Extra points if they can ease the Russian residents out without the rest of the world screaming about ethnic cleansing.
There could be a program to assist Prussian Russians in their return/move/migration to Russia, funded by Germany.

Like how the Greeks and Turks exchanged their ethnic populations. But without all the bad side-effects.
 
Particularly since Kalingrad would loose much of it's Raison d'etre if the Soviet Union is in no condition to maintain a naval base there. The Russian population might just move on their own due to economic circumstances.
 
While some of our members may be mustard-keen on settler-colonialism by a modern civilised European nation, the Germans, being a sensible and all-around pretty cool people, are not. They have enough on their plate with re-unification to pour money into any such crazy schemes.

I'm eager to know what is meant by "ease".
 
While some of our members may be mustard-keen on settler-colonialism by a modern civilised European nation, the Germans, being a sensible and all-around pretty cool people, are not. They have enough on their plate with re-unification to pour money into any such crazy schemes.

I'm eager to know what is meant by "ease".

Agreed. Germany has already done the irredentist revenge thing, and they are not eager to repeat the experience--except for a minority that everyone else is ashamed of. Even neo-Nazis are more interested in things like immigration.

I, like a lot of people on this board, want to give Germany a better time in my AH musings. But the fact that you say this:

Extra points if they can ease the Russian residents out without the rest of the world screaming about ethnic cleansing.

is a good example of this tendency going too far. How exactly are they going to "ease" the Russians out? Why would these people leave? Because things were different a hundred years ago? Look at what it took to make the Germans leave E.P. What would it take to bring them back? It's not lebensraum, but it would be in the same ballpark.

The entire world would, rightly, unite in protest against any attempt to annex this land, and almost certainly prevent it. They'd probably set back reunification another half-century as well. "Germany hasn't learned," they'd say. "Germany is not ready to retake its place among nations." And they'd be right.

By all means put this in a TL, but if you do, depict a Germany that would do this as a much nastier place than the Germany we know and love.
 
the point of the thread was not to portray Germany in any sort of negative light. That never even occurred to me. It was just about a scenario where the country could regain a region which they owned for a considerable time. And, in this scenario, with a more violent breakup of the SU, and the Kaliningrad Oblast now surrounded by Poland and Lithuania,, I was merely wondering if it was at all plausible. If not, so be it. I could have just as easily done a TL about how the Finns could get Karelia back, which, IMHO, the SU stole without any justification. Anyway, I have no wish to get into any pissing matches, so I'll say no more on the subject.
 
Fair enough. I don't mean to shut this topic down, though perhaps I meant to change its tone.

I just find an irredentist Germany problematic, at least without exploration of the moral questions. One of my favorite things about Germany today is how well it has (mostly) learned the lessons from the crimes of its past, which many other countries haven't. A Germany gung-ho about colonizing lands the Nazis lost hasn't learned the lessons as well as its OTL counterpart.

Sorry if I came on too strong about this.
 
The only way I see this happening is if somehow the Kalingrad Oblast was still populated by Germans, or had a large German majority. That way in the 1990.-s they could declare independace and ask to be united with Germany. But this would probably need some ASB help.
 
and Germany can send in eager settlers

Where shall these come from?

As the grandchild of "Vetriebene" from Silesia and the Sudeten, I couldn't muster the energy to go East... Most other 3rd generationers aren't even aware of their heritage.

The 2nd generation, by 1990, was not more inclined to give up their prosperous lives in (West-) Germany to settle down somewhere - behind Poland where, considering the FRG standard of living, you would have to be a pioneer for some time!
The 1st generation was far too old already.

About the political problems, the other answers have said enough, I can only underline these. Add to that the financial burden (money paid to settlers, creation of infrastructure, deals with Poland due to transit rights, money for Russians ready to leave if paid for [only imaginable thing to get them out]).
 
The entire world would, rightly, unite in protest against any attempt to annex this land, and almost certainly prevent it. They'd probably set back reunification another half-century as well. "Germany hasn't learned," they'd say. "Germany is not ready to retake its place among nations." And they'd be right.

Will they be willing to stop unification by force? Will they be willing to crush pro-unification crowds under the treads of their tanks?

Or, if the Bundeswehr is successful in preventing Tiannemens in every German city, threaten to or use nukes?

Something tells me that's what it would take.
 
While some of our members may be mustard-keen on settler-colonialism by a modern civilised European nation, the Germans, being a sensible and all-around pretty cool people, are not. They have enough on their plate with re-unification to pour money into any such crazy schemes.

I'm eager to know what is meant by "ease".

Unless this involves expelling Russians and others the Communists settled in this territory and stealing their property, does it really count as "settler-colonialism"?

And define "modern" and "civilized." Unless the FRG goes Milosevic on the original population, why would this violate either dictum?
 
The only way and i stress the only way for this to happen in a peaceful manner would be for the USSR to not have expelled the Germans from Keonigsburg in the first place. and even then at the end of it all you have the problem that Europe was tired of the upstart Prussia and moderately glad that it was vanquished to the history books.

You would Need the large German population for any attempt at bringing E. Prussia back into the republic and Otto Von Bismark himself to arise from the grave to stem the fears of France, Poland and everyone else for that matter.

I could see the land being absorbed by Poland then going back to Germany. For better or worse the borders of Germany are as good as it gets.
 
Personally, I'd like to see the Russians stay on in Kaliningrad. However, I don't think that Germany would want it. However, what if - and I seriously mean it - Lithuania was awarded Kaliningrad? After all, before the Old Prussians switched to using German, they spoke a Baltic language similar to Lithuanian, and one would reason that the culture would be similar. Lithuania currently has a small-scale movement to revive the Old Prussian language (which is no mean feat, since a good deal of it had to be reconstructed), and Lithuania shares a good portion of its history with Prussia - particularly the Teutonic Knights. So maybe Lithuania gains Kaliningrad, and renames it Prūsija ("Prussia" in the Lithuanian language), or the revived "Prūsa" ("Prussia" in the revived Old Prussian language). There could be tons of possibilities with this one.
 
Personally, I'd like to see the Russians stay on in Kaliningrad. However, I don't think that Germany would want it. However, what if - and I seriously mean it - Lithuania was awarded Kaliningrad? After all, before the Old Prussians switched to using German, they spoke a Baltic language similar to Lithuanian, and one would reason that the culture would be similar. Lithuania currently has a small-scale movement to revive the Old Prussian language (which is no mean feat, since a good deal of it had to be reconstructed), and Lithuania shares a good portion of its history with Prussia - particularly the Teutonic Knights. So maybe Lithuania gains Kaliningrad, and renames it Prūsija ("Prussia" in the Lithuanian language), or the revived "Prūsa" ("Prussia" in the revived Old Prussian language). There could be tons of possibilities with this one.

Now that is interesting.
 
Maybe if the Soviet Union pulls out in 1950, but not now. It's over. Germany will never get back the eastern territories, because the people are fully assimilated into their respective societies (Polish and Russian). Unless...

...Kaliningrad is given to the GDR, as a goodwill gesture towards everyone (The GDR, West Germany, the West). Thus, East Prussia returns to Germany after reunification.
 
Personally, I'd like to see the Russians stay on in Kaliningrad. However, I don't think that Germany would want it. However, what if - and I seriously mean it - Lithuania was awarded Kaliningrad? After all, before the Old Prussians switched to using German, they spoke a Baltic language similar to Lithuanian, and one would reason that the culture would be similar. Lithuania currently has a small-scale movement to revive the Old Prussian language (which is no mean feat, since a good deal of it had to be reconstructed), and Lithuania shares a good portion of its history with Prussia - particularly the Teutonic Knights. So maybe Lithuania gains Kaliningrad, and renames it Prūsija ("Prussia" in the Lithuanian language), or the revived "Prūsa" ("Prussia" in the revived Old Prussian language). There could be tons of possibilities with this one.
This has potential. Maybe, combined with a no EU scenario, we could have a united Baltic state including Ostpreusen?
 

Old Airman

Banned
One of obligatory PODs for this would be Stalin not giving any Eastern Prussian territory to Poles. Taking land from Russia is debatable. Taking land from Poland is not.
 
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