Paul
I think there are a lot of debates about the figures. There were an established middle class and fairly well off 'working class' people in a lot of the artisan and specialist trades prior to the industrial revolution. A lot of those suffered badly during the industrial period. In the longer term things did improve but as many other nations showed it could have been done a lot better. I remember reading a quote a while back from an expert who had analysed Britain's decline and included the standard comments about while we would lose some of our lead as other industrialised but not as much as we actually did. This was made about 1890! If we had introduced the sort of education and trade support programmes that our rivals had Britain would have been in a much better economic and social position. It was not just a matter of economics but also the decline in social cohesion during this period.
Who said that? Don't think Marka has said anything like that and know I didn't. I said that by adapting laisse-faire polices Britain accelerated its economic and social decline relative to our main economic rivals. Not a matter of living standards but of policy, in this case largely a policy of not having a policy.
Steve
Yes, life still sucked for many people. There were serious social problems left and right. The fact remains, however, that Victorian Britain was able to provide a higher material standard of living for a larger portion of its population than just about any other society that had existed before or existed at the time.
I think there are a lot of debates about the figures. There were an established middle class and fairly well off 'working class' people in a lot of the artisan and specialist trades prior to the industrial revolution. A lot of those suffered badly during the industrial period. In the longer term things did improve but as many other nations showed it could have been done a lot better. I remember reading a quote a while back from an expert who had analysed Britain's decline and included the standard comments about while we would lose some of our lead as other industrialised but not as much as we actually did. This was made about 1890! If we had introduced the sort of education and trade support programmes that our rivals had Britain would have been in a much better economic and social position. It was not just a matter of economics but also the decline in social cohesion during this period.
Saying that it was backward because it didn't come up to early 21st century standards of good living is kind of like saying that everyone in Victorian Britain was an idiot because they didn't have the internet or satellite television.![]()
Who said that? Don't think Marka has said anything like that and know I didn't. I said that by adapting laisse-faire polices Britain accelerated its economic and social decline relative to our main economic rivals. Not a matter of living standards but of policy, in this case largely a policy of not having a policy.
Steve