President Al Bundy
Banned
Your challenge is, with a P.O.D after May 8th, 1945, to make the Soviet Union respectively the Eastern Bloc democratic, but still socialist, and the west fascist (Or something similiar), but still capitalistic.
AH Challenge: The good east and the evil west
- Thread starter President Al Bundy
- Start date
This is completely implausible. The Soviet Union was inherently totalitarian, even before Stalin. This can be traced back to the Marxist-leninist idea of a "revolutionary vanguard" leading the revolution. This idea showed in the cancellation of elections. With stalin, he escalated the Authoritarianism to Totalitarianism, which showed in the Purges and the forced famines. The United States and Britain on the other hand were representative democracies with the rule of law and separation of powers, although the executive branch would exert its influence. Soviet Influenced Socialism would mean it would be inherently totalitarian.
Ask any terrorist and they'll say that right now the east is good and the west is bad. Its all a matter of perspective...
as the old saying goes the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter is point of veiw the difference between a dictator and a man doing what must be done is point of view
Difficult, but somewhat workable. You can have the west drown in Red xenophobia while the USSR reforms.
A "terrorist" isnt a political definition, terrorists around the world have widely opposing views.
Also have Stalin and most of his cronies die on May the 8th and have Yellowstone erupt. This would likely turn the US fascist although in Europe many states may convert to communism however it's also possible they could go fascist. Meanwhile Kruschev could have brought democratic reform if he had been premier till his death or round about then, all you need to do is have him appear stonger which won't be too difficuly when you have the US hammered.
Yeah, I know, but the general thought/stereotype of a terrorist now is a Muslim Extremist
They hated the east even more than the west. Why did you think they preferred the Athiestic superpower?
Non-serious POD: Your family moves (somehow) to the Soviet Union, you are born there.
Serious POD.
(Still not really serious, but the entire idea is ASB anyway.)
The POD is... er... something minor in late 1970s, probably. I'm too lazy to flesh it out
When 1980s come, disarmament still rolls on schedule, bringing the practical end to nuclear WWIII threats; the failure of the Soviet Union (and the Eastern bloc in general), hovewer, does not.
By then, though, communism is apparently just some fiction, and socialism is the "way to go".
Meanwhile, in the West, the dominant belief is still that the USSR is "t3h 3v0l c0mm13s"... It goes so far, one US president actually repeals the 22nd* and goes to the 3rd and 4th term as anticommunist; by then, he has the control of nearly the entire government, so he basically changes the Constitution that the USA is pretty much Fascist with him in power.
He then (diplomatically) conquers NATO and it also becomes Fascist.
By 2030, the west is evil and the east is good (at least comparatively).
Basically, Heinlein's Future History, or at least its versions with a post-1945 POD (I think one has 1962; another one has post-1969).
(OOC: Yes, I know it's just ENI's post in more words.)
(OOC2: By the way, can this *Soviet Union be called (or even be) Russia?)
So what, how?
January First-of-May
Serious POD.
(Still not really serious, but the entire idea is ASB anyway.)
The POD is... er... something minor in late 1970s, probably. I'm too lazy to flesh it out
When 1980s come, disarmament still rolls on schedule, bringing the practical end to nuclear WWIII threats; the failure of the Soviet Union (and the Eastern bloc in general), hovewer, does not.
By then, though, communism is apparently just some fiction, and socialism is the "way to go".
Meanwhile, in the West, the dominant belief is still that the USSR is "t3h 3v0l c0mm13s"... It goes so far, one US president actually repeals the 22nd* and goes to the 3rd and 4th term as anticommunist; by then, he has the control of nearly the entire government, so he basically changes the Constitution that the USA is pretty much Fascist with him in power.
He then (diplomatically) conquers NATO
and it also becomes Fascist.By 2030, the west is evil and the east is good (at least comparatively).
Basically, Heinlein's Future History, or at least its versions with a post-1945 POD (I think one has 1962; another one has post-1969).
(OOC: Yes, I know it's just ENI's post in more words.)
(OOC2: By the way, can this *Soviet Union be called (or even be) Russia?)
So what, how?
January First-of-May
OK, in the USSR Khrushchev remains in power somehow and makes some democratic and economic reform. Kosygin succeeds him and reforms further to a more consumer-based economy and Gorbachev succeeds him in the early 1980s and democratizes further. Generally, the USSR remains somewhat authoritarian, andcertainly not Stalinist/Brezhnevvite anymore. By the late 90s, Moscow is allowing democratic elections on the local and regional levels and gives autonomy to the SSRs, making it a looser federation. It still has communist SSRs and the Communist party in charge in Moscow, but this is as good as it gets IMO.
In the meantime, in the 50s McCarthy becomes President of the US some how and repeals the 22nd amendment and runs on a platform of "better dead than red", gaining two terms while his successor gets three, four or even five and six while the FBI and CIA increase in power tremendously to Gestapo levels, making the US a pseudo-fascist dictatorship. In the meantime, Franco decides not to appoint Juan Carlos is 'heir' so Spain remains a military dictatorship. Portugal gets US weapons, financing and advisors so they can keep up their colonial war against communist rebels. France, under the influence of tonnes of American anti-commie rhetoric and propaganda and also US meddling in her affairs becomes a Gaullist-authoritarian regime which leaves NATO. Italy goes worse than OTL and gets a communist insurrection in the 50s, not large enough to overthrow the government in Rome, but enough to convince the US to support a coup by the Italian military, making Italy a military junta. I'm not sure how to make Britain 'evil'. Worse IRA terrorist campaigns, leading to more influence for MI5 and MI6?
In the meantime, in the 50s McCarthy becomes President of the US some how and repeals the 22nd amendment and runs on a platform of "better dead than red", gaining two terms while his successor gets three, four or even five and six while the FBI and CIA increase in power tremendously to Gestapo levels, making the US a pseudo-fascist dictatorship. In the meantime, Franco decides not to appoint Juan Carlos is 'heir' so Spain remains a military dictatorship. Portugal gets US weapons, financing and advisors so they can keep up their colonial war against communist rebels. France, under the influence of tonnes of American anti-commie rhetoric and propaganda and also US meddling in her affairs becomes a Gaullist-authoritarian regime which leaves NATO. Italy goes worse than OTL and gets a communist insurrection in the 50s, not large enough to overthrow the government in Rome, but enough to convince the US to support a coup by the Italian military, making Italy a military junta. I'm not sure how to make Britain 'evil'. Worse IRA terrorist campaigns, leading to more influence for MI5 and MI6?