AH challenge: switch Russia and Germany after WWI

the challenge is this, at the end of WWI make Germany become a Communist state, and Russia become a disorganized democracy like Weimar Republic. how can this happen?
 
Pretty easy...have te Russian Revolution spawn many other seccesion states declare independence and revolutions, and have Germany's Communist Party take the same route as Nazis.
Then have foreign aid reunite Russia as a feable democracy.
 
This isn't that hard. Have the USSR do really well against Poland. The Soviets listen to Trotsky? and make a wider revoultion, starting in Germany. The Allies, realizing the communist threat decide to defend on the western front with France stoping the German attack. The British, Americans, Japanese, and anyone else land directly in Russia, but instead of OTL they instilled a draft to "protect the workers against the massive threat that is communism". With greater forces and more countries partisipating hopefully they defeat the USSR, and set up a democracy. Communist Germany realizing it's demise quickly calls a cease-fire. Under the terms Germany stays communist.

I hope that make 1% sense
 
Pretty easy...have te Russian Revolution spawn many other seccesion states declare independence and revolutions, and have Germany's Communist Party take the same route as Nazis.

I would be careful with any TL allowing Russia to descend into revolution and climb back to a stable shiny democracy shortly after that. It was one seriously messed up society, desperately looking for "new ways" and pretty skeptical about established systems. Once you let the revolutionary beast out, it is very hard to put it back.
 
It would be more likely that someone along the lines of Kerensky or Kolchak dissolve the duma before any revolution can begin, and eventually transfer to an unstable democracy.

It might even be possible if the Russian Revolution and Kolchak and Kerensky are supported, along with the Whites, directly by foreign powers.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
Ehh... for the revolution to happen, but the reds lose the civil war you need the whites to have public (peasant) support. Without the peasant they'll lose.
I have had in mind a TL with a Russian Republic in the 20s and 30s, but I have huge problems with the POD (how to give the Whites even a remote chance to win the war).
 
I would be careful with any TL allowing Russia to descend into revolution and climb back to a stable shiny democracy shortly after that. It was one seriously messed up society, desperately looking for "new ways" and pretty skeptical about established systems. Once you let the revolutionary beast out, it is very hard to put it back.
It's supposed to be as weak as Weimar. And I never said it was all of Russia.
 
Just made a similar post here

Germany is relatively easy. There were a number of points during the German Revolution of 1917-1923 which could have resulted in a council republic or other form of communist state. The biggest challenge would be overcoming the SPD and its alliance with the Freikorp. One suggestion would be to have the majority of the SPD follow the splitters into the USPD, thus isolating Ebert and forcing his government further into the arms of the Freikorps and reactionary right. Perhaps the Kapp Putsch then serves to drive the masses into revolutionary organs of insurrection a la the Kornilov Affair?

For Russia it depends what you mean by "the end of WWI". If you mean Brest-Litovsk the no, I'd view it as impossible. Once the Bolsheviks are in power then the only force that can dislodge them are the reactionary Whites armies. The Whites however have zero support from the general population and have no alternative besides the Tsarist governments which have already been decisively rejected. In this case the most likely scenario is the Balkanisation of Russia

However if we move the POD to 1917 then there's no reason why Kerensky and co can't survive provided their capabilities are drastically increased. At the root of the failure of the Provisional Government was its sheer incompetence - both in managing the war, the economy, and the realm of politics. If Russia leaves the war early, or at least maintains a steady defence; the complete infrastructural breakdown is somehow halted (for example, ensuring steady food supplies to Petrograd); and the Constituent Assembly is called promptly... well the PG might have a chance. Following the July Days the Soviet leadership took a number of measures to align itself closer to the PG and if the situation can somehow be stabilised (before August when the reactionaries lose patience and Kerensky declares himself dictator) then you might even see the soviets disband themselves a la the councils of OTL Germany

Clearly Russia will be tough. You've got competing pressures from the right and left. Like Ebert in Germany, the Kerensky government is going to have to decisively defeat of of those, without then encouraging the other wing, and somehow steer a middle course. But not impossible if the right decisions are made at the right times; the swing towards the Bolsheviks was not inevitable. Again though, all this has to happen before October (realistically August) to have any chance
 
Top