AH challenge: Survival of the Western Roman Empire

In OTL the Western Roman Empire officially ceased to exist when the last Emperor Romulus Agustulus was forced to abdicate in 476 AD by the Germanic General Odoacer.

Is it possible that the Western Empire could have endured past this date? After all the Eastern Roman Empire (AKA. The Byzantine Empire) lasted until 1453 AD.

Between the splitting of the Roman Empire into eastern and western halves by Diolcetian in 293 AD, up until Romulus Agustulus' abdication in 476 AD, is there a POD that would allow the Western Empire to endure for longer than it did in OTL?
 

Philip

Donor
Yes. There are many such PoDs. It really depends on how much longer you want the Empire to last.

For example: Odoacer's advance on Ravenna is slightly delayed by bad weather. Romulus abdicates September 6th instead of September 4th.
 

Germaniac

Donor
The Best way is for it to be reestablished not survive. Simply wave away the Justianian Plauges and poof Emperor Justinian has the manpower, Agricultural power, and taxes he needs to capture northern Italy and Gaul
 

wormyguy

Banned
The Best way is for it to be reestablished not survive. Simply wave away the Justianian Plauges and poof Emperor Justinian has the manpower, Agricultural power, and taxes he needs to capture northern Italy and Gaul
Or the Justinian plague is two centuries earlier, three times worse, and happens in Germany.
 
I'd think that the best way would be to move the capital to a better location, like Constantinople which is a natural centre of commerce and easily defended. I'm aware that Milan and Ravenna were used as capitals but both are a bit makeshift and not really natural centres of transportation/commerce.

Is there any good location which was a centre of commerce/transportation in the Western Roman empire in the late 3rd century?
 

Hecatee

Donor
There are some, like Trier (Germany) or Arles (southern France) which both were imperial capitals during the 3rd and 4th centuries. Italy was no longer a economical centre at the time, Gaul was the real one.

Arles would probably be the best capital in this scheme, even if not easily defended (but further away from troubles than Trier which is quite close to the border...) but had easy access to the sea and to inland trade through the Rhone river.
 
You'd either need a series of powerful and lucky emperors, or a change to a more stable system that still acts decisively, something between the Senate and Emperors.

And a less hedonistic Roman citizinship.
 
My opinion is that the Western Empire did survive and continues to do so. It was transformed into the Western Church. Then in the Reformation was broken into the denominations we see today
 
While the Church did continue the cash/market economy and the high tecnology things like roads, aquaducts, major stone buildings, water mills did not, and I think that is an integral part of the Roman empire.
 
You could always have a reestablished WRE with Belisarius accepting the crown from the Goths, how long this would last i don't know since italy was pretty much ruined at that point in time.
 
The administrative structure of the WRE survived for some time under the Germanic kingdoms. What if Odoacer declares himself emperor and starts a Germanic dynasty? He or his successors would have to deal with the Franks, Visigoths and Vandals and eventually re-incorporate/conquer them into the WRE, and ending up with a Germanic Western empire and a Greek Eastern Empire.
 
You could always have a reestablished WRE with Belisarius accepting the crown from the Goths, how long this would last i don't know since italy was pretty much ruined at that point in time.

This is quite not true. Belisarius had a Mary Sue campaign actually, and when he was offered the crown Italy was not really devastated at all.

Bad things and ruin started when he was replaced by Narses in the 2nd half of the Gothic wars; even more when this was followed by the invasion of the Langobards
 
The Best way is for it to be reestablished not survive. Simply wave away the Justianian Plauges and poof Emperor Justinian has the manpower, Agricultural power, and taxes he needs to capture northern Italy and Gaul


He would probably loose it again due to crappy leadership IMO. And with his personality he is unlikely to give someone else the authority of emperor.
 
I would say that if the combined forces of Majorian and Leo I managed to defeat the Vandals in North Africa WRE still has a chance of surviving... Plus u need strong and capable Western Emperors after Majorian... Not mere puppets of the (mainly foreign) Magistri Militum in order for WRE to survive... Capturing North Africa is essential for WRE because its a rich province and disengages WRE from having to buy its grain from ERE or the Vandals...
Now if North Africa is secured Majorian would be free to deal with matters in Gaul and reconquer it (he wanted to do that in OTL but the disaster brought upon him by the incompetent Basiliscus prevented him from doing so)... But the key part here is to have strong Western Emperors...without them WRE is doomed even if Majorian manages to capture N. Africa...
 
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