AH Challenge: Super Armenia Wank!

Armenia in OTL has allwas been a backwater, regional power, occupied nation, or puppet state. In AH, Armenia is usually ignored. Your challenge is this: With any POD you want make Armenia THE POWER of the region.
Rules:
1. no ASB, no "Armenia discovers gun power in 300 AD"
2. Armenian culture should be perserved, no Muslim Armenia, Armenia must speak Armenian.
anything else is fair game.
 

Rockingham

Banned
Some Armenian state or another takes Anatolia(perhaps allying with the Venetians and French in the 6th(?) crusade), eventaully take Constantinople.
 

Xen

Banned
Hmmmm!

Okay, the Battle of Nazareth isn't as solid of a victory for the Byzantines as it was in OTL, they are able to claim victory, but not to press deeper into Persia. When the Muslim Armies came knocking the Persians were strong enough to prevent from being conquered though they had to accept the loss of some cities, including a siege of Ctesphion (sp?), after this battle the capital is left in ruins, and the Persians move their capital further east.

As a result the Byzantine Empire is able to hold onto Palestine, Syria and Egypt, centuries pass and the Armenians remain under the shadow of the Byzantines. The Mongols eventually arrive more than less on schedule and have their eyes set on the wealth of Christian Constantinople. The Byzantines fight the mongols in Europe and Asia Minor and are losing badly. By now the Turks had conquered Persia and converted to Zoroastrianism decide to take advantage of this by conquering parts of Anatolia, Syria and Palestine.

Two decades later a young Armenian rallies his countrymen to stand up against the corrupt Mongols. His hatred for Mongols is unrivaled, though he is half Mongol (his 14 year old mother was raped by a Mongol when he was conceived). The Rebellion grows with Armenia eventually encompassing much of Anatolia and Syria.

Unable to reconquer its lands to the east, the Byzantines look to the west, capturing and holding Italy, southern France and parts of Spain. Egypt manages to free itself from Byzantine rule and establishes its own Empire stretching from Carthage to Jerusalem. The Armenians however have established themselves as THE power of the Orient, and for 300 years the Armenian Empire is a superpower.

By 1800 the power of the Armenian Empire has waned, Syria has established its independence, the Yazidi Kurds have also become independent. In spite of these losses Armenia remains a major player in the Orient, dominating most of Eastern Anatolia.


Not the greatest, but it could possibly work, stranger things have happened
 
The crusader era. IIRC, their was an Armenian state in South-East Anatolia in this period.

True - Cilicia was an Armenian state during this period.

However, even though Cilicia was quite powerful for a state of its size, it was not capable of conquering the Rum Sultanate. (unless, of course, the Rum Sultanate is somehow nearly destroyed, and reduced to Konya/Iconium and its immediate surroundings)
 
Allright, here's my try for this scenario:

The Umayyads manage to survive until about 900 AD (albeit with some trouble), and continue to practice their policy of tax-farming the non-Muslim population and preventing large numbers of non-Muslims from converting to Islam.

(in OTL, there was only one Umayyad Caliph who promoted Islam among his subjects and encouraged them to convert, and this eventually led to the downfall of the Umayyads as his successors were not willing to give the fairly large group of converts equal rights and tax-exemption, which resulted in various revolts from dissatisfied converts)

Then, by the beginning of the 10th century, the Umayyad state is weakened by a few internal rebellions, and it fails to respond properly to various Turkish hordes who are now migrating into Persia and the Middle East. And as the Samanids are butterflied away in this scenario, Islam has far less influence in Central Asia ITTL, so the lionshare of these Turks are not Muslims.

Then, a major pagan Turkish tribe conquers the emirate of Arminiya, one of the provinces of the Caliphate, and several Armenian nobles side with the Turks in the hope of gaining more power.

The Armenian nobles intermarry with the ruling clans of this Turkish tribe, and both clerics of the Armenian Orthodox Church as well as pious Armenian aristocrats promote the Armenian Orthodox version of Christianity among their Turkish overlords, and after several decades, the ruling clans of this Turkish tribe have become largely Christian as a result of proselytization and intermarriage with Armenians.

Eventually, this results in the Armenianization of the ruling elite of this Turkish tribe, and even though most of the nomadic Turks retain their Turkish identity and language, the empire itself becomes decidedly Armenian in character.

This Armeno-Turkish empire then also has a few powerful and capable leaders, and it conquers both Azerbaijan, as well as parts of the Eastern Caucasus, Byzantine Armenia, and some parts of northwestern Mesopotamia.

Persia has been overrun by various Turkish tribes at this point, and the Umayyad Caliphate is losing its grip on Mesopotamia, where both invading Turks, individual Arab and Kurdish tribes, and Islamic sects and movements that opposed the Umayyads are now taking advantage of the near-collapse of the Umayyads. The northern parts of Syria and Mesopotamia are conquered by the Armeno-Turkish empire.

And on the north, this newly established Turkish empire is bordered by the emirate of Tbilisi and various small Christian Georgian principalities, all of whom are vassals of this Armeno-Turkish empire.

In the west, the Byzantine Empire remains fairly strong, but aside from a few minor conflicts, there are no real wars beteen the Byzantines and the Armeno-Turkish empire during this period.

During the 10th and 11th centuries, the Armeno-Turkish empire remains strong, while the Umayyad Caliphate, which is now reduced to Syria, Palestine, the Hijaz, and Lower Egypt, deteriorates even further, and eventually collapses during the mid-11th century.

Syria and Palestine are conquered by the Armeno-Turkish empire, which makes this empire the major power of the Middle East.
 
Someone gives Armenia nukes, and the UN takes everyone's nukes exept Armenia's. The U.S. makes a bluff that if everybody doesn't hand their land to America, they are going to nuke anybody who's independant. They put they're bluff on the internet, and a clerk Misspells America, Armenia. Seeing as they can back their "claim" Armenia wank.
 
Someone gives Armenia nukes, and the UN takes everyone's nukes exept Armenia's. The U.S. makes a bluff that if everybody doesn't hand their land to America, they are going to nuke anybody who's independant. They put they're bluff on the internet, and a clerk Misspells America, Armenia. Seeing as they can back their "claim" Armenia wank.

*cough, cough*

Rules:
1. no ASB
 
um, so what do we do with all those Muslim Armenians?

Depending on what POD one uses, there won't be any.

And besides, the numbers of Armenian Muslims have always been fairly small, mainly because Islamized Armenians are usually quickly assimilated into the locally dominant Muslim community.

which Armenian?

Any dialect or variety of the Armenian language.
 
Here is a challenge from me

I want to see a strong Armenia TL (doesn't have to be still strong in 20th century, but at least they got their history as one) that is based on this thread's rule, in a Muslim dominated world ! :cool: (Or at least, Muslim World ITTL will be no weaker than it was OTL. And about the "Muslim Dominated World", I mean as much as Christians dominate the world to day [or at least no such "UBER CALIPHATE" thingy and such along those lines]. Pretty much like this example ! :cool: [but no, I'm not asking for Mughal World+strong Armenia TL, although I don't forbid you or anything as well ;)])
 
In Rafi Issagholian's "A Light in the East," the Armenians become a very technologically-advanced state, to the point where the Byzantines mob them and exile them to Mongolia to keep their tech from falling into the hands of enemies.

I came up with a scenario similar to Ran's where the Turks migrate into Armenia rather than Persia and convert to the Armenian Apostolic Church. POD wasn't as radical as the Ummayyad Caliphate surviving though.
 
Armenian Mandate

During the Paris Peace conference in 1919 the US was offered an Armenian mandate. The mandate stretched from the Black Sea to the Mediterranean. The mandate would only be temporary. Greater Armenia would gain full independence 1921-24 time period. American interests would keep Greater Armenia independent(near Kurdistan, Iraq, Iran)from Soviet expansion. During WWII Greater Armenia would aid allied operations in Iraq and Iran.

The Cold War era has Greater Armenia take on a major strategic role in the NATO alliance. Armenia's proximity to the Soviet Union and the Mid-East means massive amount of foreign capital flow into the country. Armenia achieves western European living standards in the 1960's, about the same time western Europeans do ironically enough.

Post Cold War Greater Armenia continues to prosper, being the only truly democratic nation in south west Asia makes Armenia a hub for intellectuals and entrepreneurs. Greater Armenia's connections with oil rich nations such as Kurdistan, Turkmenistan, and Kazakhstan ensure that she profits from the oil spikes in the early 21st century, and Armenia's strategic importance of the War on Terrorism insures continued attention from the United States.
 

ninebucks

Banned
I'm working on a TL based on the Egyptian New Kingdom building a canal connecting the Mediterranean with the Red Sea, and the effects that will have on all concurrent world civilisation.

In TTL, Islam will be butterflied away as Hejaz, in OTL a backwater, becomes a major tariff-enforcing state on the Silk Waterway. However, to replace the role of Islam as 'hugely popular Middle Eastern religion with undertones of cultural chauvanism', I'm considering having the Armenians come up with such a creed and conquering the Caucasus and Mesopotamia, (and later Eastern Europe and Central Asia)...
 
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