AH Challenge: Stable Mexico

[Tyr]

I created a thread on this that got a few posts 2 months or so back if you look.

 

[Glen]

I created a thread on this that got a few posts 2 months or so back if you look.

Got a link, Leej?

 

[Glen]

Got a link, Leej?

Still would like to see that link.

Also think a Stable USAesque Mexico would be a fun one for Mosaic Earth.

 

[Glen]

I suspect that a Stable Mexico would prefer fragmented nations who were under the economic sway of Mexican companies, but I could also see them being satisfied with a UPCA if it were reasonably friendly.

I like the idea of Mexico not the US fighting a war with Spain in latter half of the 19th century. Where the cultural issues probably stopped full US annexation, I don't see that happening for Mexico.

The Phillippines still is likely to remain independent, though maybe a protectorate.

Who would pick up Hawaii in such a timeline? I think I've been leaning towards it still being the USA. I could be wrong on that one.

 

[Wendell]

I suspect that a Stable Mexico would prefer fragmented nations who were under the economic sway of Mexican companies, but I could also see them being satisfied with a UPCA if it were reasonably friendly.

I like the idea of Mexico not the US fighting a war with Spain in latter half of the 19th century. Where the cultural issues probably stopped full US annexation, I don't see that happening for Mexico.

The Phillippines still is likely to remain independent, though maybe a protectorate.

Who would pick up Hawaii in such a timeline? I think I've been leaning towards it still being the USA. I could be wrong on that one.

Mexico will pick up Hawaii if the U.S. is denied a Pacific coast. The British could get it.

 

[Glen]

Mexico will pick up Hawaii if the U.S. is denied a Pacific coast. The British could get it.

I'm thinking the US still gets its Oregon Country settlement and the Pacific Coast.

The British could get it as well, this is true.

But it seems likely to me to go American still, or remain independent by playing off the powers against each other.

 

[Wendell]

I'm thinking the US still gets its Oregon Country settlement and the Pacific Coast.

The British could get it as well, this is true.

But it seems likely to me to go American still, or remain independent by playing off the powers against each other.

Mexico would want it for the same reasons the U.S. sought those islands IOTL.

 

[Glen]

Mexico would want it for the same reasons the U.S. sought those islands IOTL.

Well, who will go there? Mexico doesn't have AS strong of a Naval tradition. I can see that changing by the late 1800s, but not before the US gets a toehold in Hawaii, I think...

 

[Wendell]

Well, who will go there? Mexico doesn't have AS strong of a Naval tradition. I can see that changing by the late 1800s, but not before the US gets a toehold in Hawaii, I think...

The Mexicans here might build a navy specifically because the Yankees have one. Americans were first drawn to Hawaii for missionary work, and then plantations. Furthermore, Hawaii makes a good fueling station if one seeks expansion intothe Pacific. Maybe the missionary work will appeal to the Mexicans?

 

[Glen]

The Mexicans here might build a navy specifically because the Yankees have one. Americans were first drawn to Hawaii for missionary work, and then plantations. Furthermore, Hawaii makes a good fueling station if one seeks expansion intothe Pacific. Maybe the missionary work will appeal to the Mexicans?

Actually, the Missionary work is a good point and a good hook.

 

[HueyLong]

Thing is, most of the best governments in Mexico were anti-Church.

 

[Wendell]

Thing is, most of the best governments in Mexico were anti-Church.

Anticlerical with regard to the promulgation of religiously-slanted legislation. Most or all of the leadership atleast acted as if they were practicing Catholics.

 

[Glen]

Thing is, most of the best governments in Mexico were anti-Church.

Anticlerical with regard to the promulgation of religiously-slanted legislation. Most or all of the leadership atleast acted as if they were practicing Catholics.

From what point, guys? The Constitution of 1824 enshrines Catholicism as the Religion of the Land...

 

[Wendell]

From what point, guys? The Constitution of 1824 enshrines Catholicism as the Religion of the Land...

The current OTL constitution is officially secular.

 

[Glen]

The current OTL constitution is officially secular.

Okay...........

 

[Glen]

A Short History of the United States of Mexico (if we can figure out how)

The Mexican nation was born with the Constitution of 1824, which parallelled that of their neighbor to the north, the USA, with the exception of the establishment of the Roman Catholic Apostolic Church as the state religion.

Some historians still claim that members of the military were planning a coup in 1829, but this has never been conclusively established, and in any event the peaceful transition in the presidency set a precedent for future elections.

The next few decades saw the growth of the Mexican economy, though troubles still intermittantly cropped up from time to time. The Yucatan war led to the slaughter or expulsion to Guatemala of most of the Mayan population in that region in the 1840s. Trouble also occassionally cropped up with the Anglo settlers in the far north, who more often honored their pledges to convert to Catholicism in the breach rather than the keeping.

The late 1840s saw the discovery of the gold fields of Alta California, which greatly spurred development in the territory and led to the creation of new Mexican states in the region as the population grew. Some of this wealth went towards developing Mexican infrastructure, which had for several years lagged behind the Americans.

However, the movements of Mexican citizens into the North and American immigrants to the region from the East brought undesired attention to the Deseret community of the polygamistic Mormons, leading to their so-called 'Saints' War' against the United States of Mexico, which eventually resulted in their defeat and the expulsion of the Mormons to the Oregon Country north of the 42nd parallel, the Northernmost border of Mexico.

The 19th century saw increased immigration from Europe to both America and Mexico, drawn by the economic opportunities of the New World. A religious dicotomy developed in the immigration patterns of the two nations, with many Roman Catholics, especially Irish and Meditteranean nationalities, choosing the United States of Mexico, whereas Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, and Jews tended to be attracted to the purported religious freedoms of the United States of America.

The Isthmus of Tehuantepec was becoming a major transportation route between the gold fields of California and the rest of the world, and became one of the sites of major railway development for transoceanic shipments. However, a more ambitious vision for the Isthmus was the construction of a transoceanic canal. This vision would not be realized in full until the turn of the century, greatly assisted by the developments in steam diggers and explosives.

The Age of Expansion saw Mexico come into conflict with Spain over the Cuban revolution, and the Spanish-Mexican war saw the defeat of the Old World by the New. Cuba and Puerto Rico opted for statehood in the United States of Mexico, whereas the Philippines remained stubborn in their insistence on independence and this eventually was granted.

Also during the Age of Expansion, The Dominican Republic opted for annexation by Mexico after ending Haitian and the Spanish occupation, and was actually the first Caribbean island state.

Mexico along with the USA, Great Britain, and Japan became guarantors of the neutrality and extraterritorial priveledges of the nations in the Kingdom of Hawai'i.

By the early twentieth century, the gold and silver wealth of the nation had begun to peter out, but were replaced by the new wealth of black gold in the state of Coahuila and Texas.

Also, social changes had finally come to the United States of Mexico. For decades, the priviledged position of the Church had been enshrined in the Constitution, but more and more was being eroded and challenged in day to day life, especially by protestant immigrants in the north. Eventually, a constitutional amendment was passed citing the historical and cultural significance of the Church in Mexican life, but removing the Church's priviledges and established status, making Mexico a nation of religious freedoms.

continued....

Mexico remained neutral in the first World War up until the end, when it joined the rest of the Latin world in declaring againt the Central Powers. The USA had joined the war in 1917 after several provacative sinkings in the North Atlantic by the Germans.

Mexico was a key signatory along with the USA, Great Britain, and Japan of the Washington Naval Treaty that helped to ease some of the naval race in the Pacific.

With increasing aggression by the Japanese in Asia, the United States of Mexico joined America and Great Britain in declaring an embargo on Oil and Scrap Metal against the Japanese. Thus it was that the Japanese took the course of launching a surprise attack on the Naval Bases in the Kingdom of Hawai'i with an aerial raid by the Grand Fleet and suicide attacks by the Japanese Marine contingent stationed there. The Germans declared war on the Mexico and America in support of their allies Japan the next day.

The Americans and Mexicans agreed with the British to face the German threat primarily, with the Americans mostly engaging in that theatre, while the Mexicans primarily worked to counter the Japanese in the Pacific, though forces from both nations would serve in both theatres throughout the course of the war.

Many of the Pacific islands were taken by Mexican Marines in bloody island hopping battles. It was a Mexican force that liberated the Philippines and received a liberator's welcome in their former territory. Mexicans also played a prominent role in the Italian campaign.

Towards the close of WWII, many Mexicans braced themselves for the final invasion of the Home Islands, in cooperation with the Americans. However, they were shocked to discover that the Americans had managed to produce an atom bomb mere weeks before their use on the Japanese, precipitating the surrender of Japan.

The revelation of the American atomic bomb was met with mixed feelings in the United States of Mexico. Many were relieved that a costly invasion had been avoided, but most of the country was upset that their ally had kept Mexico out of the development of this powerful new weapon, and now had an edge over Mexico in this regard.

The United States of Mexico would go on to join the transatlantic alliance against communism, and stationed troops mostly in the Mediterranean and Catholic nations with whom they shared kinship from the many immigrants from those regions. The Mexican intelligence service was active in the mid to late 20th centuries in supressing communist activities in Central and Latin America, actions for which they were sometimes criticized for. The USA performed similar actions in the Far East in this time period.

BTW, in my Mexico timeline, Mexico bought the Danish Virgin Islands in WWI, and they are part of the State of Puerto Rico, somewhat like the State of Caribe is a state of the USA in Weimar World.

Mexico gains what would have been the US mandate in the Pacific after WWII.

Japan is jointly occupied by the Mexicans and Americans at the end of WWII.

Also, with a Mexico Canal, there was no independent Panama, which remains part of Colombia.

....In this version, there's a lot of immigration coming in, and up in the North of Mexico (which in part is OTL Midwest) we're more likely to see smaller, independent farmers develop.

However, the real money will come in the Yucatan from the rope industry, then from the California gold rush, and lastly the big Texas oil rush.

I can see the development of more industry once the gold money becomes available for the economy.

Basically, I think we'll see the large plantations AKA haciendas fade out over time....

Ah yes. My Versions of Mexico. I have some maps for this that I will have to put up later.

 

[Grand Prince Paul II.]

A stable Mexico: The Mexico of the Monarchy World

There is an Empire of Mexico, which is quite powerful and stable, after instability in its initial years of independence. It is an almost theocratic Roman Catholic state.

http://www.clockworksky.net/monarchy_world/ah_mw_world.html

 

[Glen]

Bump Bump Bump

 

[Glen]

Bump bump bump

 

[Glen]

I still like the idea of a Mexico that develops based on the 1824 Constitution (with revisions, of course).