AH Challenge: Stable Mexico

Glen

Moderator
Farnham said:
If you want Mexico to retain it's 1824 borders, you need to either have a more benevolent autocrat than Santa Anna or a greater sense of federalism and decentralization in Mexico.
Take Texas for example. In 1826 some American settlers tried to revolt and form the Republic of Fredonia in Texas. The revolt was put down not just by Mexican troops but by the militia that Stephen Austin mustered. So at least some American settlers were willing to be loyal Mexicans. Plus the Tejanos revolted with the Americans in 1835. If Mexico had had a more benign ruler, or if there was less centralization and the people in the north felt left alone by Mexico City, maybe so much Mexican territory wouldn't be ripe for the picking.
Inviting non-American colonists to also settle the north would have helped too.

If they had retained the Constitution of 1824, then there would not be revolt in Texas. That was the constitution that the Texians were willing to live under and defend.

And why not? Except for the Catholic part, it was nearly identical to the US Constitution.

So keep the 1824 constitution, and you keep the borders. Basically, have to keep autocrats from rising up in Mexico.
 

Glen

Moderator
Glen said:
A Short History of the United States of Mexico (if we can figure out how)

The Mexican nation was born with the Constitution of 1824, which parallelled that of their neighbor to the north, the USA, with the exception of the establishment of the Roman Catholic Apostolic Church as the state religion.

Some historians still claim that members of the military were planning a coup in 1829, but this has never been conclusively established, and in any event the peaceful transition in the presidency set a precedent for future elections.

The next few decades saw the growth of the Mexican economy, though troubles still intermittantly cropped up from time to time. The Yucatan war led to the slaughter or expulsion to Guatemala of most of the Mayan population in that region in the 1840s. Trouble also occassionally cropped up with the Anglo settlers in the far north, who more often honored their pledges to convert to Catholicism in the breach rather than the keeping.

The late 1840s saw the discovery of the gold fields of Alta California, which greatly spurred development in the territory and led to the creation of new Mexican states in the region as the population grew. Some of this wealth went towards developing Mexican infrastructure, which had for several years lagged behind the Americans.

However, the movements of Mexican citizens into the North and American immigrants to the region from the East brought undesired attention to the Deseret community of the polygamistic Mormons, leading to their so-called 'Saints' War' against the United States of Mexico, which eventually resulted in their defeat and the expulsion of the Mormons to the Oregon Country north of the 42nd parallel, the Northernmost border of Mexico.

The 19th century saw increased immigration from Europe to both America and Mexico, drawn by the economic opportunities of the New World. A religious dicotomy developed in the immigration patterns of the two nations, with many Roman Catholics, especially Irish and Meditteranean nationalities, choosing the United States of Mexico, whereas Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, and Jews tended to be attracted to the purported religious freedoms of the United States of America.

The Isthmus of Tehuantepec was becoming a major transportation route between the gold fields of California and the rest of the world, and became one of the sites of major railway development for transoceanic shipments. However, a more ambitious vision for the Isthmus was the construction of a transoceanic canal. This vision would not be realized in full until the turn of the century, greatly assisted by the developments in steam diggers and explosives.

The Age of Expansion saw Mexico come into conflict with Spain over the Cuban revolution, and the Spanish-Mexican war saw the defeat of the Old World by the New. Cuba and Puerto Rico opted for statehood in the United States of Mexico, whereas the Philippines remained stubborn in their insistence on independence and this eventually was granted.

Mexico along with the USA, Great Britain, and Japan became guarantors of the neutrality and extraterritorial priveledges of the nations in the Kingdom of Hawai'i.

By the early twentieth century, the gold and silver wealth of the nation had begun to peter out, but were replaced by the new wealth of black gold in the state of Coahuila and Texas.

Also, social changes had finally come to the United States of Mexico. For decades, the priviledged position of the Church had been enshrined in the Constitution, but more and more was being eroded and challenged in day to day life, especially by protestant immigrants in the north. Eventually, a constitutional amendment was passed citing the historical and cultural significance of the Church in Mexican life, but removing the Church's priviledges and established status, making Mexico a nation of religious freedoms.

continued....

Mexico remained neutral in the first World War up until the end, when it joined the rest of the Latin world in declaring againt the Central Powers. The USA had joined the war in 1917 after several provacative sinkings in the North Atlantic by the Germans.

Mexico was a key signatory along with the USA, Great Britain, and Japan of the Washington Naval Treaty that helped to ease some of the naval race in the Pacific.

With increasing aggression by the Japanese in Asia, the United States of Mexico joined America and Great Britain in declaring an embargo on Oil and Scrap Metal against the Japanese. Thus it was that the Japanese took the course of launching a surprise attack on the Naval Bases in the Kingdom of Hawai'i with an aerial raid by the Grand Fleet and suicide attacks by the Japanese Marine contingent stationed there. The Germans declared war on the Mexico and America in support of their allies Japan the next day.

The Americans and Mexicans agreed with the British to face the German threat primarily, with the Americans mostly engaging in that theatre, while the Mexicans primarily worked to counter the Japanese in the Pacific, though forces from both nations would serve in both theatres throughout the course of the war.

Many of the Pacific islands were taken by Mexican Marines in bloody island hopping battles. It was a Mexican force that liberated the Philippines and received a liberator's welcome in their former territory. Mexicans also played a prominent role in the Italian campaign.

Towards the close of WWII, many Mexicans braced themselves for the final invasion of the Home Islands, in cooperation with the Americans. However, they were shocked to discover that the Americans had managed to produce an atom bomb mere weeks before their use on the Japanese, precipitating the surrender of Japan.

The revelation of the American atomic bomb was met with mixed feelings in the United States of Mexico. Many were relieved that a costly invasion had been avoided, but most of the country was upset that their ally had kept Mexico out of the development of this powerful new weapon, and now had an edge over Mexico in this regard.

The United States of Mexico would go on to join the transatlantic alliance against communism, and stationed troops mostly in the Mediterranean and Catholic nations with whom they shared kinship from the many immigrants from those regions. The Mexican intelligence service was active in the mid to late 20th centuries in supressing communist activities in Central and Latin America, actions for which they were sometimes criticized for. The USA performed similar actions in the Far East in this time period.
 
Glen, I made a map based on ideas I conjured up. Tell me what you think:

supermex.PNG
 
Imajin said:
Why has the US annexed Canada?
There was a war. Although, one living in the world of that map might claim that Canada was absorbed. This U.S.A. goes through several reforms after losing the South.
 

Glen

Moderator
Wendell said:
I am actually surprised that he let the Philippines go in his scenario.

I thought about it, at least holding onto it as long as the USA did, but with Hawai'i more likely to remain independent with two US Pacific Powers, I thought there'd be less impetus to holding the Philippines.
 
Glen said:
I thought about it, at least holding onto it as long as the USA did, but with Hawai'i more likely to remain independent with two US Pacific Powers, I thought there'd be less impetus to holding the Philippines.
There may be less impetus, but the historical link would be stronger.

What did you think of my map?
 

Glen

Moderator
Wendell said:
There may be less impetus, but the historical link would be stronger.

What did you think of my map?

Interesting, though confusing in many respects. Care to share your timeline in summary for that map?
 

Glen

Moderator
Imajin said:
Hm, the Phillipines were originally part of the Viceroyalty of New Spain.

Its true that the Phillipines was also a colony of Spain, and they speak Spanish there. However, the Filipinos are different from the Mexicans, far away, and have a desire for independence.

However, I can be swayed.

So, do people believe in my parallel timeline, that Mexico would annex the Phillippines?
 
Well, Filipinos spoke Spanish only for the upper classes. The people mixed it with their native malay family language(s), and it gave birth to what is now Tagalog and otehr several smaller languages.
 

Glen

Moderator
The Ubbergeek said:
Well, Filipinos spoke Spanish only for the upper classes. The people mixed it with their native malay family language(s), and it gave birth to what is now Tagalog and otehr several smaller languages.

This is, of course, true.
 

Glen

Moderator
BTW, in my Mexico timeline, Mexico bought the Danish Virgin Islands in WWI, and they are part of the State of Puerto Rico, somewhat like the State of Caribe is a state of the USA in Weimar World.

Mexico gains what would have been the US mandate in the Pacific after WWII.

Japan is jointly occupied by the Mexicans and Americans at the end of WWII.
 

Glen

Moderator
Also, with a Mexico Canal, there was no independent Panama, which remains part of Colombia.
 

Thande

Donor
Imajin said:
Hm, the Phillipines were originally part of the Viceroyalty of New Spain.
Really? :confused: I've never heard that before. Didn't the Viceroyalty of New Spain also include all the Spanish Caribbean possessions as well as mainland Mexico?
 

Glen

Moderator
Thande said:
Really? :confused: I've never heard that before. Didn't the Viceroyalty of New Spain also include all the Spanish Caribbean possessions as well as mainland Mexico?

Yes, it did, at least at some points in its history.
 
Is it possible for this to happen with the economic conditions prevalent in Mexico?

Everyone says that the CSA would be a hell hole because of the short sighted Plantation owners. Why would Mexico be any different? Most haciendas were larger than Southern plantations, and the peons were kept as virtual slaves.

To make this happen, you need to make the social structure and class system closer to the USA in OTL, with lots of small farmers, instead of huge feudal plantations. Otherwise, Mexico would go the route that it did in OTL.
 

Glen

Moderator
Kidblast said:
Is it possible for this to happen with the economic conditions prevalent in Mexico?

Good question.

Everyone says that the CSA would be a hell hole because of the short sighted Plantation owners. Why would Mexico be any different? Most haciendas were larger than Southern plantations, and the peons were kept as virtual slaves.

True. However, in this version, there's a lot of immigration coming in, and up in the North of Mexico (which in part is OTL Midwest) we're more likely to see smaller, independent farmers develop.

However, the real money will come in the Yucatan from the rope industry, then from the California gold rush, and lastly the big Texas oil rush.

I can see the development of more industry once the gold money becomes available for the economy.

Basically, I think we'll see the large plantations AKA haciendas fade out over time.

To make this happen, you need to make the social structure and class system closer to the USA in OTL, with lots of small farmers, instead of huge feudal plantations. Otherwise, Mexico would go the route that it did in OTL.

Its a bit of a problem, to be certain. However, social reform over time is not implausible. Have any recommendations for achieving it?
 
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