AH Challenge: Spanish-American Alliance

You task is to create an alliance between the Kingdom of Spain, and a Democratic United States of America with a POD no earlier then 1860.
 
It isn't too hard really. Just delay the Peninsular war and keep Spain a French ally by 1812, and start by having Spain assist America during that war. Maybe selling Texas and northern Mexico too.
 

Philip

Donor
It isn't too hard really. Just delay the Peninsular war and keep Spain a French ally by 1812, and start by having Spain assist America during that war. Maybe selling Texas and northern Mexico too.

That's a bit earlier than 1860.
 

Thande

Donor
No it's just a side effect of the US education system.

The US education system is run by the Germans? :D

Well, I don't know. I suppose some scenario like this might work:

1. Someone (Germany?) has a colonial war with Spain, wanting to take Cuba and the Philippines, at some point in the 1880s.

2. The USA is still rather weak because of the Civil War and doesn't have much of a standing army, but does have quite a decent navy.

3. Although the Americans would prefer an independent (or American) Cuba, they're even more nervous about the prospect of the Germans sitting in their lap.

4. Therefore, the president offers to help the Spanish retain Cuba and the Philippines in exchange for granting them the right to put American bases there (like Guantanamo in OTL).

And then go from there.
 
This is the most reasonable scenario. Juarez's Mexico as a third member of the alliance would screw any Confederate attempt to expand forever.

UUUURRRGGGGHHH! There is no reason to assume the CSA would expand into Mexico. There is no reason to assume the CSA would expand at all.
 

Thande

Donor
UUUURRRGGGGHHH! There is no reason to assume the CSA would expand into Mexico. There is no reason to assume the CSA would expand at all.

I think people assume that because the southern states produced a lot of filibusterers in OTL (not least to bring more slave states into the union to back up their position) they'd keep doing it after independence. But that motivator at least has gone, and I don't think they'd be too hungry for land for settlement either. Expansionist CSAs probably are quite an unwarranted cliché.
 

Xen

Banned
I think people assume that because the southern states produced a lot of filibusterers in OTL (not least to bring more slave states into the union to back up their position) they'd keep doing it after independence. But that motivator at least has gone, and I don't think they'd be too hungry for land for settlement either. Expansionist CSAs probably are quite an unwarranted cliché.

Agreed, and I dont see the CSA want to have an aggressive USA at its north, however I can see the CSA expanding a little. The Harry Turtledove expansion into Mexican provinces of Sonora and Chihuahua to give the CSA access to the Pacific. And yes I believe the CSA would want this, they can probably work an arrangement with the US and maybe Napoleon III of France. The CSA will support Maxy like in the books, in return for those provinces, while the USA acquires Baja California. Other than access to the Pacific I can't see the CSA wanting to expand much further, no reason or need.
 
UUUURRRGGGGHHH! There is no reason to assume the CSA would expand into Mexico. There is no reason to assume the CSA would expand at all.

Oh, but there is a golden rule in AH that says that in 999 of each 1000 possible worlds, the CSA does expand. Did you know?

But, on the other hand, how many TLs have a CSA that tries to expand but is crushed like a fly inside a fist in the first attempt? That's something very different.

Have a CSA winning by miracle without foreign intervention, a fool like Albert G. Brown taking the presidency ("I want Cuba . . . I want Tamaulipas, Potosi, and one or two other Mexican States; and I want them all for the same reason -- for the planting and spreading of slavery.") and a mis-perception of the POTUS of the time to be weak or unwilling to going to war, and you can have the CSA jumping on something more than it can chew.

In fact, last night I discovered this prizeless text in soc.history.what-if that amazingly reproduces what I had in mind when I wrote my last post:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc....?lnk=gst&q=brown+water+fleet#f4465fc5402d8fff
 
Agreed, and I dont see the CSA want to have an aggressive USA at its north, however I can see the CSA expanding a little. The Harry Turtledove expansion into Mexican provinces of Sonora and Chihuahua to give the CSA access to the Pacific. And yes I believe the CSA would want this, they can probably work an arrangement with the US and maybe Napoleon III of France. The CSA will support Maxy like in the books, in return for those provinces, while the USA acquires Baja California. Other than access to the Pacific I can't see the CSA wanting to expand much further, no reason or need.

Maximillian wouldn't do that.
 

Xen

Banned
Maximillian wouldn't do that.

Then the CSA can take them by force, working in cooperation with the US and claim they are enforcing the Monroe Doctrine, and as part of the Republic of Mexico's wardebt they are ceding those provinces to the CSA and perhaps Baja California to the USA. Its all economics, having access to the Pacific will be vital to the CSA, as will having a friendly USA to the north. This new war could be seen as something of a reconcilling of sorts between the CS and US.
 
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