AH Challenge: Satanic Empire

I don't know... I believe that even reading, writing, saying, or listening to the name Satan is just invoking his presence. It's not something I want to see every day. You guys have done it before, but, I just thought I should mention it. It's like a taboo has been broken. Something deeper than the usual stuff. Homosexuality. Murder. Genocide. Drugs. Cannibalism. I can deal talking about that. Its real world kind of stuff. Satan, though, thats more than real, to me and probably a lot of other people. Gives me the heebie-jeebies, personally.

Note: While I did list Homosexuality along with genocide and cannabalism, all I meant by it was that a lot of more strict/fundamentalist Christians would feel offended by it as well. Not saying its evil or that it can be classified along with the rest.

Actually, if you really want to go into etymology of "Satan", origins of the concept list him as being merely one of the God's servants, just with a more... ignoble mission than the most. See the story of Job, for example... My understanding of the idea is that for a Christian to believe in Satan as an "adversary" is essentially denying the idea of monotheism, and accepting the universe as being a battle of two deities, good and evil one...therefore, in my interpretation, for a Christian the name of Satan should mean very little, if anything at all, especially with an idea of an omnipotent and benevolent God.
 
Actually, if you really want to go into etymology of "Satan", origins of the concept list him as being merely one of the God's servants, just with a more... ignoble mission than the most. See the story of Job, for example... My understanding of the idea is that for a Christian to believe in Satan as an "adversary" is essentially denying the idea of monotheism, and accepting the universe as being a battle of two deities, good and evil one...therefore, in my interpretation, for a Christian the name of Satan should mean very little, if anything at all, especially with an idea of an omnipotent and benevolent God.
From what i have read satan does mean adversary:confused:

Apart from that actually I've always thought of him as more of a Mephisto
 
I think any kind of 'Satanic Empire' that could have much in the way of lastability has to have its official religion stem from more than merely 'evilness'. One thing that Maltheism and the Euthyphro Dilemma highlight is that, supposedly, morality stemmed from God, not because he was good himself (because that would imply that he was limited by a power higher than himself) but because he was the creator and what he said went. Coupled with the Maltheistic belief that God didn't seem terribly beholden to his own rules (what with the flooding of the world, raining hellfire on Sodom and Gomorrah, turning people into pillars of salt, and putting poor Job through great horrors just to prove a point) then that may germinate the idea that...well...'better to reign in hell than serve in heaven'.

Milton's Paradise Lost contains the point that, although God encourages people to come closer to him, when Lucifer actually attempted to become 'closer to God' by daring to ask what his divine plan actually was, he was cast out of heaven for his impertinence, and became 'the adversary' out of spite. Satan...or 'Lucifer' as he may be more frequently known as, though keeping the 'Satanic' label as an expression of 'adversity' to the iron laws of the world...would become a symbol of resistance to the arbitrary dictats of absolute rulers, and the right of humans to choose their own destiny, regardless of what God thinks.

So yeah, revolutionary France seems the best bet.
 
From what i have read satan does mean adversary:confused:

Apart from that actually I've always thought of him as more of a Mephisto


It does mean "adversary", however, an idea of an adversary in a monotheistic faith is absurd, since anything that is equally powerful to that of God is essentially another God, which takes away the monotheism... and if he is not equal to the main deity, than he cannot truly be an adversary.
 
You know, thanks to this discussion, all of you have now almost forced me to try to make a Satanic TL in Europe...

or revive my old one.....

I had an odd thought though

Satanism in 30 years war Germany, cause I see Satanism as being possible in any time period were pain and suffering caused by christianity as being a possibility


or for hilarities sake, howabout Satanism in the Russian Revolution?


Hail Satan!
not really, contrary to popular believe, I dont worship satan, I really dont worship anything, except I think god has a nasty sence of humor
 
You know, thanks to this discussion, all of you have now almost forced me to try to make a Satanic TL in Europe...

or revive my old one.....

I had an odd thought though

Satanism in 30 years war Germany, cause I see Satanism as being possible in any time period were pain and suffering caused by christianity as being a possibility


or for hilarities sake, howabout Satanism in the Russian Revolution?


Hail Satan!
not really, contrary to popular believe, I dont worship satan, I really dont worship anything, except I think god has a nasty sence of humor

Go for it, I'd like to see a plausible TL where a single European nation takes up Satanism as an official religion, and manages to survive with it.
 
My only problem with Satanic TLs, is I love the effects, but I no next to nothing about anything before 1775 or so, and its near impossible to have a satanic state arise by then...

Unless

I just had a very, very odd idea.......probably more of an ASB tl then anything....or could be FH....I gotta go read up on the stories of the Final Pope and the Anti-Christ....hmmm, an Idea is forming in my head

or I might try to do a realistic version (R.E. Darker version with GC victory) of the left behind story.
 
My only problem with Satanic TLs, is I love the effects, but I no next to nothing about anything before 1775 or so, and its near impossible to have a satanic state arise by then...

Unless

I just had a very, very odd idea.......probably more of an ASB tl then anything....or could be FH....I gotta go read up on the stories of the Final Pope and the Anti-Christ....hmmm, an Idea is forming in my head

or I might try to do a realistic version (R.E. Darker version with GC victory) of the left behind story.

Well, let me know if you have questions... my own speciality is ancient and medieval history, but I should be able to help if needed.
 
My contribution

Following a Stuart victory in the early years of the Civil War, the dominant governmental ideal in all of Europe becomes Absolutism. The Absolutist princes of the continent are united in opposing intellectual and religious divergence, building their states on the Westphalian consensus of 'whose reign, whose faith'. Without the exanple of English and Dutch institutions and the credibility of their success, Enlightenment ideas never spread quite so far. Instead, a heretical religio-intellectual underground develops in which new religious ideas mingle with revolutionary political ideologies. When, in 1853, burden of a tottering Absolutist regime going from defeat to defeat becomes too much for the people of France, a popular uprising in the city of Paris leads to the ousting and eventual execution of Louis XX. The Ecclesie Populaire, under the influence of intellectual leaders schooled in a tradition of neo-Luciferianisam that regards the rebel Lucifer as the other and favourite son of God, declares that 'France is a Christian Republic under the tutelage of Satan the Revolutionary Angel'.

This is great! If you don't mind, I to think I'm going to improve on this one.

After word gets out about the French turning Satanist, the Christian Countries of Europe choose to unite against France. In the several months it takes for them to raise their armies, France must prepare for the oncoming crusade. Needless to say, they are outnumbered. The odds are against them. But then help comes from a much unexpected source - America. Part of why America revolted was Britain's attitude toward the colonists. Taxation without Representation was just as much an issue odfDemocracy against Monarchy. Even with the latter gone and America still rebelled against Britain. France still aided them, and they became free. And they were willing to help France still, if it hurt Britain. Europe by the time it had modernised had depleted much of it's natural resources,the whereas America did not have this problem, having been only sparsely settled by the Natives and recently colonized by Europeans. Their representatives met in secret, neither wanting the other countries of Europe to know about their cooperation. Though necesary at the moment, the price of this bargaiin would later come back to haunt France.
 
Following a Stuart victory in the early years of the Civil War, the dominant governmental ideal in all of Europe becomes Absolutism. The Absolutist princes of the continent are united in opposing intellectual and religious divergence, building their states on the Westphalian consensus of 'whose reign, whose faith'. Without the exanple of English and Dutch institutions and the credibility of their success, Enlightenment ideas never spread quite so far. Instead, a heretical religio-intellectual underground develops in which new religious ideas mingle with revolutionary political ideologies. When, in 1853, burden of a tottering Absolutist regime going from defeat to defeat becomes too much for the people of France, a popular uprising in the city of Paris leads to the ousting and eventual execution of Louis XX. The Ecclesie Populaire, under the influence of intellectual leaders schooled in a tradition of neo-Luciferianisam that regards the rebel Lucifer as the other and favourite son of God, declares that 'France is a Christian Republic under the tutelage of Satan the Revolutionary Angel'.

This is great! If you don't mind, I to think I'm going to improve on this one.

After word gets out about the French turning Satanist, the Christian Countries of Europe choose to unite against France. In the several months it takes for them to raise their armies, France must prepare for the oncoming crusade. Needless to say, they are outnumbered. The odds are against them. But then help comes from a much unexpected source - America. Part of why America revolted was Britain's attitude toward the colonists. Taxation without Representation was just as much an issue odfDemocracy against Monarchy. Even with the latter gone and America still rebelled against Britain. France still aided them, and they became free. And they were willing to help France still, if it hurt Britain. Europe by the time it had modernised had depleted much of it's natural resources,the whereas America did not have this problem, having been only sparsely settled by the Natives and recently colonized by Europeans. Their representatives met in secret, neither wanting the other countries of Europe to know about their cooperation. Though necesary at the moment, the price of this bargaiin would later come back to haunt France.
 
An individualist revolt springing from a harsher Cromwellian Commonwealth. This leads to a Satanic-esque republic in the British Isles. Eventually Satan is recast as the protector of Earth against the souls of the wicked dead and eventually the Satanic Republic of Britain and Ireland establishes colonies in North America, Argentina, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand. These colonies are integrated into the Republic, forming the Commonwealth of Satanic States.

I should be committed.
 
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