With a POD of 1945, have an American presidency with Ronald Reagan and RFK holding the positions. It doesn't matter which one's POTUS and which one's Vice President. Bonus points if it's before 1970.
AH Challenge: Reagan/RFK Presidency
- Thread starter Polish Eagle
- Start date
John Fredrick Parker
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I can see one following the other, maybe after an election where they square off, but together...
Well, I guess Reagan could stay a Democrat, but, IMO, that just makes it a lot less likely that he goes into politics -- OTL, his came to the scene campaigning for Goldwater...
Well, I guess Reagan could stay a Democrat, but, IMO, that just makes it a lot less likely that he goes into politics -- OTL, his came to the scene campaigning for Goldwater...
1968: RFK doesn't die, but he doesn't win the Democratic nomination. HHH loses to Nixon as in OTL.
1972: OTL. RFK doesn't think he has a chance against a really popular Nixon, the Democratic candidate is buried by Nixon.
1976: RFK wins the Democratic nomination, and Ford wins the Republican nomination. RFK wins a closer-than-expected election.
1980: RFK has presided over a terrible economy, and possible national humiliation in Iran. George H. W. Bush wins the nomination, and picks his nearest challenger as his vice-presidential candidate: Ronald Reagan.
The 1980 election gets thrown into a 269-269 tie in the Electoral College. The HoR narrowly picks RFK as President, but the newly-Republican Senate picks Reagan to be his vice-president.
1972: OTL. RFK doesn't think he has a chance against a really popular Nixon, the Democratic candidate is buried by Nixon.
1976: RFK wins the Democratic nomination, and Ford wins the Republican nomination. RFK wins a closer-than-expected election.
1980: RFK has presided over a terrible economy, and possible national humiliation in Iran. George H. W. Bush wins the nomination, and picks his nearest challenger as his vice-presidential candidate: Ronald Reagan.
The 1980 election gets thrown into a 269-269 tie in the Electoral College. The HoR narrowly picks RFK as President, but the newly-Republican Senate picks Reagan to be his vice-president.
Actually, I think it's quite easy to have Reagan/Kennedy.
First off, you have RFK survive his assassination, and grab more delegates before the DNC. However, other things happen that results in Hubert Humphrey's nomination on the third ballot. However, wanting a unified party, Humphrey offers RFK the vice presidency. In RogueBeaver's Resurrection City timeline (which was finished a while ago), this same thing happened.
At the RNC, have other delegates defect to Ronald Reagan, which could easily have happened in OTL, which would result in Reagan's nomination. There's a timeline out there called President Reagan - in 1968, which uses this same POD. In that timeline, Reagan chooses Senator Charles Percy of Illinois as his running mate, which is a plausible choice. So if you do that, you have 1968 with Reagan/Percy vs. Humphrey/Kennedy.
Then, if you manage to have Humphrey tie with Reagan in the polls, you can easily have the election see no candidate win 270 EVs. It's pretty easy with Reagan as the GOP nominee to have George Wallace win more Southern states than OTL, and if you have Nixon win all of the other OTL Nixon '68 states and Humphrey the OTL '68 states, you have the election thrown to Congress.
From there, it's really easy. Have a few of the Southern Democrat delegations vote for Reagan, and you have the House electing Ronald Reagan as president. Then, in the Senate vote on a vice president, you have the Democratic majority stay together and elect RFK as vice president. In Resurrection City, this same sort of scenario occured, but in that timeline, the Democrats and Republicans tied 50-50 in the Senate, so VP Humphrey casts the tie-breaking vote for Kennedy which elects RFK as VP. Also, if you compare this entire scenario to RC, the main difference is that Nixon was the GOP nominee, not Reagan.
So, there you have it - President Reagan elected by the House, Vice President Robert Kennedy elected by the Senate, in 1968.
First off, you have RFK survive his assassination, and grab more delegates before the DNC. However, other things happen that results in Hubert Humphrey's nomination on the third ballot. However, wanting a unified party, Humphrey offers RFK the vice presidency. In RogueBeaver's Resurrection City timeline (which was finished a while ago), this same thing happened.
At the RNC, have other delegates defect to Ronald Reagan, which could easily have happened in OTL, which would result in Reagan's nomination. There's a timeline out there called President Reagan - in 1968, which uses this same POD. In that timeline, Reagan chooses Senator Charles Percy of Illinois as his running mate, which is a plausible choice. So if you do that, you have 1968 with Reagan/Percy vs. Humphrey/Kennedy.
Then, if you manage to have Humphrey tie with Reagan in the polls, you can easily have the election see no candidate win 270 EVs. It's pretty easy with Reagan as the GOP nominee to have George Wallace win more Southern states than OTL, and if you have Nixon win all of the other OTL Nixon '68 states and Humphrey the OTL '68 states, you have the election thrown to Congress.
From there, it's really easy. Have a few of the Southern Democrat delegations vote for Reagan, and you have the House electing Ronald Reagan as president. Then, in the Senate vote on a vice president, you have the Democratic majority stay together and elect RFK as vice president. In Resurrection City, this same sort of scenario occured, but in that timeline, the Democrats and Republicans tied 50-50 in the Senate, so VP Humphrey casts the tie-breaking vote for Kennedy which elects RFK as VP. Also, if you compare this entire scenario to RC, the main difference is that Nixon was the GOP nominee, not Reagan.
So, there you have it - President Reagan elected by the House, Vice President Robert Kennedy elected by the Senate, in 1968.
Thanks for the reference: I almost forgot my TL, mainly because the writing, if not the ideas, was crap. But yes, that is the only scenario where this is plausible unless you use prewar PODs. After all, Joe Kennedy contributed heavily to the MA Republican Party before he met FDR, and under the Tail-Gunner RFK could easily become a Republican were it not for family dynamics (and his subsumation of his own ambition for the family, which is for another thread ) preventing him from making such a dramatic break.
) preventing him from making such a dramatic break.Thanks for the reference: I almost forgot my TL, mainly because the writing, if not the ideas, was crap. But yes, that is the only scenario where this is plausible unless you use prewar PODs. After all, Joe Kennedy contributed heavily to the MA Republican Party before he met FDR, and under the Tail-Gunner RFK could easily become a Republican were it not for family dynamics (and his subsumation of his own ambition for the family, which is for another thread
Your TL wasn't crap; I actually was reading it through again a few days ago, and I thought it was alright. I really did like the idea of a Nixon-Kennedy administration.
Anyway, back to the OP - As far as 1968 is concerned, I'm pretty sure RB will agree that it's impossible to have Kennedy/Reagan elected by Congress. It's easy to get Kennedy nominated for president. But it's impossible to have Reagan nominated for VP. Keep in mind that Nixon and Reagan are from the same state. So, if you try to stick with major candidates, that only leaves Nelson Rockefeller, who was unnominatable in 1968 - and even if he was, he certainly wouldn't pick Reagan to be VP. So unless you get a different GOP figure to take the nomination, you simply can't have Reagan nominated for VP. Which is unfortunate; it would be fun to see President Robert Kennedy work with Vice President Ronald Reagan in the late 60s and early 70s.
Your TL wasn't crap; I actually was reading it through again a few days ago, and I thought it was alright. I really did like the idea of a Nixon-Kennedy administration.
Anyway, back to the OP - As far as 1968 is concerned, I'm pretty sure RB will agree that it's impossible to have Kennedy/Reagan elected by Congress. It's easy to get Kennedy nominated for president. But it's impossible to have Reagan nominated for VP. Keep in mind that Nixon and Reagan are from the same state. So, if you try to stick with major candidates, that only leaves Nelson Rockefeller, who was unnominatable in 1968 - and even if he was, he certainly wouldn't pick Reagan to be VP. So unless you get a different GOP figure to take the nomination, you simply can't have Reagan nominated for VP. Which is unfortunate; it would be fun to see President Robert Kennedy work with Vice President Ronald Reagan in the late 60s and early 70s.
Yes, the fun of Kennedy/Reagan was the point of the thread. But if we were to somehow 'remove' Nixon (I'm sure there were people who wouldn't be averse to him having an 'accident'), say, in 1967, what would Reagan's chances be?
Not great: he would be too inexperienced, and the GOP would likely nominate George Romney, who's not presidential material and has the Mormon problem, Bidenesque gaffes, and was born in Mexico to American parents. In 1960 you had "Know-Nothing 2.0", in ATL '68 it would be Birthers four decades early.