AH Challenge: One Normandy Beach Assigned to Free French

Anaxagoras

Banned
Here is the challenge: Have one of the five Normandy Beaches assigned to the Free French, with the large majority of the landing force on that beach made up of Free French troops.

This sound rather simple but, as I think about it, becomes more complicated and difficult, particularly when one considers the politics of the situation and the personal relationship between De Gaulle and Roosevelt and Churchill.
 
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Yeah. You have to have a different dynamic between De Gaulle, Churchill and Roosevelt. How you'd get that, I haven't got a clue.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
Yeah. You have to have a different dynamic between De Gaulle, Churchill and Roosevelt. How you'd get that, I haven't got a clue.

Removing the giant corncob from De Gaulle's ass would be a good start. For that matter, Roosevelt's poor opinion of De Gaulle seems more like a personal vendetta than a calculated political policy. Maybe Harry Hopkins can pull FDR aside and say, "Look, I know De Gaulle's an asshole, but just get over it!"
 
Assuming the political issues are resolved, the French would have to get Gold or Juno (which would would then have to be renamed to say Charlemagne). You can't cut back on the number of American beaches and the assault on Sword was too heavily planned for it to be transferred to anyone else (the original plans were for three beaches Sword, Juno and Gold).

Once the French have their beach the next question is whether or not they use Sherman DDs and other specialised armour. The reason for this question is that it has been postulated that had the Americans used more of it on Omaha, it would not have been quite the bloodbath for them. Any thoughts on this?
 
The Americans did use DDs on Omaha but they were dropped too far offshore and sank before they reached the beach. It was the the Engineer's tanks "Hobart's Funnies" that the Americans thought were a waste of resources and did not use. Quite funny now that the US Army has re-invented the flail tank and are hailing it as a new wonder weapon against minefields.:rolleyes:
 
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I don't think it was relations with de gaulle that was the problem.

The problem was - security! Overlord HAD to be a TOP SECRET operation, with no leeks. Some US officers who made a drunken comment about it - were shipped back.
The Free French were not considered security concious enough - either in London, or by experience from French-North Africa.
Also, I think there were qualms about a separate FF agenda to the Anglo-American armies, i.e. would they always accept the orders from the Expedition Commander!

The Free French were landed at Normandy - but later, and also there were the major component of Operation Dragoon.

Alternatively, if D-Day Normandy - then IMO a joint landing with the Canadians. Unless anyone can come up with a sixth beach!?
 
Alternatively, if D-Day Normandy - then IMO a joint landing with the Canadians. Unless anyone can come up with a sixth beach!?
A sixth beach is out. D Day was delayed a month in order to get more landing craft built for just the five beaches that there was.
 
France fought on in 1940... Vichy just rules the mainland and all the colonies are Free French (maybe even a proper goverment in exile, and Vichy not considered legitimate by anyone other than Axis &co) with allied support... Though that would likely have a very different desert war in '40-'43 period.

Still such timeline has a D-Day, no reason to see why would Free French not get a beach for themselves. At the very least.
 

Interesting web ref. - it shows that although they were French nationals - the men were part of a British Commando unit and under their orders.

So yes, it could be said that Frencmen landed on D-day, if you want to be pedantic but -
1 it wasn't in the context of the thread, in Divisional strength,
2 nor, was it directly under the command of the Free French.
 
In any case I don't see it. With 5 beaches, deciding who gets one among the Allies is a political decision before a military one, and giving one of the British ones to the Free French places them on the same level as the British and the Canadians, while also moving the British one rung lower than the USA. I don't think so.

Apart from the politics, there's the training issue. The troops that landed on D-Day either had actual experience or months and months of training in landing operations. The Free French should have started training in that very early. Additionally, somebody has mentioned the shortage of landing craft; and those are needed for the training too.
 
In any case I don't see it. With 5 beaches, deciding who gets one among the Allies is a political decision before a military one, and giving one of the British ones to the Free French places them on the same level as the British and the Canadians, while also moving the British one rung lower than the USA. I don't think so.

Apart from the politics, there's the training issue. The troops that landed on D-Day either had actual experience or months and months of training in landing operations. The Free French should have started training in that very early. Additionally, somebody has mentioned the shortage of landing craft; and those are needed for the training too.

The only French in the field are the hundred thousand or so in Italy. I assume they COULD have been removed from that theatre and used, but that would have required someone to take their place - presumably more Americans

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
The only French in the field are the hundred thousand or so in Italy. I assume they COULD have been removed from that theatre and used, but that would have required someone to take their place - presumably more Americans

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

I think that anyway they were the pool where the French forces landing in Southern France were taken from.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
The only French in the field are the hundred thousand or so in Italy. I assume they COULD have been removed from that theatre and used, but that would have required someone to take their place - presumably more Americans

IOTL, the French Army was removed from Italy to take part in the invasion of southern France. Their place was taken by a combination of Americans and Brazilians.
 
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I don't think it was relations with de gaulle that was the problem.

The problem was - security! Overlord HAD to be a TOP SECRET operation, with no leeks. Some US officers who made a drunken comment about it - were shipped back.
No, no, leeks would be (pays) de Galles not (Charles) de Gaulle. That would be oignons and garlic instead....:)
 
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