AH Challenge: Nuclear Vatican

Wasn't sure where to post this, so correct me if I did it wrong.

Ok heres the challenge:

With a POD after 1870, make the Vatican City the first nation to posess nuclear weapons.
 
Now, making the Vatican a nuclear nation, or even the only nation (but not first), with nukes is easy enough. Just have treaties limiting the use of nuclear weapons and have them transfered to Vatican control (i.e., in place of say, UN control). Making them the FIRST with nukes is very close to impossible, but here goes:
A series of extremely large and deadly wars destroy much of Europe late in the 19th and early in the 20th century. Technology advances a bit faster than OTL, with OTL 1917 tanks by 1899 or so, and bombing raids like Dresden occur by 1920. Tired of war, the states of Europe with a Catholic majority (mainly France, Italy, and Spain) join in a 'Catholic European Union,' indirectly controlled by the Vatican but directly controlled by their own kings, queens, parliaments, etc. Much like the Holy Roman Empire less Germany plus Spain, around 1928.
The other nations of Europe do not join any unions, and the entire continent has been destroyed. America has not entered any wars.
The British Empire and the Catholic Union Empire are the most powerful remaining political units. Wary of each other, they enter an arms race. By about 1958, the Catholic Union Embassy representatives in London announce that they have a "bomb of unimaginable power" ready to test. In a demonstration for their British counterparts, Catholic Union scientists detonate a nuclear weapon in the sands of Algeria.

Sound good? Now the Vatican (sort of...) has the first nuclear weapons.
 
Now, making the Vatican a nuclear nation, or even the only nation (but not first), with nukes is easy enough. Just have treaties limiting the use of nuclear weapons and have them transfered to Vatican control (i.e., in place of say, UN control). Making them the FIRST with nukes is very close to impossible, but here goes:
A series of extremely large and deadly wars destroy much of Europe late in the 19th and early in the 20th century. Technology advances a bit faster than OTL, with OTL 1917 tanks by 1899 or so, and bombing raids like Dresden occur by 1920. Tired of war, the states of Europe with a Catholic majority (mainly France, Italy, and Spain) join in a 'Catholic European Union,' indirectly controlled by the Vatican but directly controlled by their own kings, queens, parliaments, etc. Much like the Holy Roman Empire less Germany plus Spain, around 1928.
The other nations of Europe do not join any unions, and the entire continent has been destroyed. America has not entered any wars.
The British Empire and the Catholic Union Empire are the most powerful remaining political units. Wary of each other, they enter an arms race. By about 1958, the Catholic Union Embassy representatives in London announce that they have a "bomb of unimaginable power" ready to test. In a demonstration for their British counterparts, Catholic Union scientists detonate a nuclear weapon in the sands of Algeria.

Sound good? Now the Vatican (sort of...) has the first nuclear weapons.

Imaginative solution. At the risk of sounding morbid, it shows how 'less is more.' The only problem I see is that with a POD before 1915 you risk butterflying away Einstein's theories (especially if the POD is "most of the population of Europe gets killed").

Still, though, without apocalyptic, earth-shattering changes, I don't see how the Papal States can continue to be even a local power after the unification of Italy.
 
Imaginative solution. At the risk of sounding morbid, it shows how 'less is more.' The only problem I see is that with a POD before 1915 you risk butterflying away Einstein's theories (especially if the POD is "most of the population of Europe gets killed").

Still, though, without apocalyptic, earth-shattering changes, I don't see how the Papal States can continue to be even a local power after the unification of Italy.

A few points:

Firstly, even if Einstein is butterflied away that would not stop someone coming up with similar ideas.

Secondly I never mentioned the Papal States, they effectively ceased to exist after 1870. I'm talking about the Vatican alone.

Finally, does the Vatican have to be a major power to develop nuclear weapons? I don't think so.

Gryphon's idea does sound good though
 
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Imaginative solution. At the risk of sounding morbid, it shows how 'less is more.' The only problem I see is that with a POD before 1915 you risk butterflying away Einstein's theories (especially if the POD is "most of the population of Europe gets killed").

Still, though, without apocalyptic, earth-shattering changes, I don't see how the Papal States can continue to be even a local power after the unification of Italy.
Thank you.
The POD does not have to include Einstein. We could have the "everlasting neutral Switzerland" that he stays in, this time. There's many ways wee could keep Einstein in ATL.
As baggins says above and below, Italy is not the Papal States. The Vatican is only controlling the Catholic Union in name.

A few points:

Firstly, even if Einstein is butterflied away that would not stop someone coming up with similar ideas.

Secondly I never mentioned the Papal States, they effectively ceased to exist after 1870. I'm talking about the Vatican alone.

Finally, does the Vatican have to be a major power to develop nuclear weapons? I don't think so.

Gryphon's idea does sound good though
For the first two points, see above.

The Vatican does not have to be a major power to develop the idea behind nuclear weapons; a few good scientists could do that no matter where they were. To actually build and/or test one, though, the Vatican is going to need some sort of power.

Thank you, again.
It's one of the few things I can pride myself on, coming up with fairly imaginative scenarios on a moment's notice to fit any challenge. Writing a full TL, though, is a bit past my current abilities.
 
The Vatican does not have to be a major power to develop the idea behind nuclear weapons; a few good scientists could do that no matter where they were. To actually build and/or test one, though, the Vatican is going to need some sort of power.

The Catholic Church holds a great deal of influence in many countries and has access to enormous wealth. I'm sure they could handle the cost of such a project, and a willing Catholic majority nation could supply an area for research and development facilities.
 
The Catholic Church holds a great deal of influence in many countries and has access to enormous wealth. I'm sure they could handle the cost of such a project, and a willing Catholic majority nation could supply an area for research and development facilities.
Aye, agreed, but the Pope is gonna have to be really strange here.
Basically, this is what happened with the 'Catholic Union,' but I just had the nations nominally controlled by Rome to give a specific "Nuclear Vatican."
 
The Catholic Church holds a great deal of influence in many countries and has access to enormous wealth. I'm sure they could handle the cost of such a project, and a willing Catholic majority nation could supply an area for research and development facilities.
Unfortunately you’re vastly overestimating the Vatican’s financial situation. In 2006 they had a budget of around $250 million with a surplus of $3.2 million. Now the cost of the Manhattan project adjusted for inflations comes out to over $23 billion. In addition the cost to the Vatican would likely be even higher since they would have to import a lot of what the US had available domestically.
 
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Keenir

Banned
With a POD after 1870, make the Vatican City the first nation to posess nuclear weapons.

I thought I posted an answer...

reposting:

Truman (or *Truman), after the bombs are successfully demonstrated on Japan, makes a gift of a nuclear bomb to the Vatican. (after all, who can they use it against?)
 
Unfortunately you’re vastly overestimating the Vatican’s financial situation. In 2006 they had a budget of around $250 million with a surplus of $3.2 million. Now the cost of the Manhattan project adjusted for inflations comes out to over $23 billion. In addition the cost to the Vatican would likely be even higher since they would have to import a lot of what the US had available domestically.

Ah, but there's a way for the cost to be met. There are at least a billion Catholics in the world today and this is after a significant decrease in membership from earlier decades

The Church could easily request a tithe from each member of the church, say the eqiuvalent of $30. That would add up to give a huge budget.

It may seem unorthodox, but the church may be very set on this goal.
 
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