AH Challenge: Nine Nations of North America

Nine Nations of North America

The Nine Nations

New England (also called New Britain or Atlantica) — an expanded version including not only Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Rhode Island, Massachusetts and Connecticut (although omitting the Connecticut suburbs of New York City), but also the Canadian Atlantic provinces of New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island, and Newfoundland and Labrador, as well as the Gaspé Peninsula of Quebec. Capital: Boston.

The Foundry — the by-then-declining industrial areas of the northeastern United States and Great Lakes region stretching from New York City to Milwaukee, and including Chicago and Philadelphia as well as industrial Southern Ontario centering on Toronto. Capital: Detroit.

Dixie — the former Confederate States of America (today the southeastern United States) centered on Atlanta, and including most of eastern Texas to Austin. Garreau's "Dixie" also includes Kentucky (which had both Federal and Confederate governments); southern portions of Missouri, Illinois, and Indiana; and the "Little Dixie" region of southeastern Oklahoma. Finally, the region also includes most of Florida, as far south as the cities of Fort Myers and Naples. Capital: Atlanta.

The Breadbasket — most of the Great Plains states and part of the Prairie provinces: Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Nebraska, the Dakotas, Oklahoma, most of western Missouri, western Wisconsin, eastern Colorado, parts of Illinois and Indiana, and North Texas. Also included are some of Northern Ontario and southern Saskatchewan and Manitoba. Capital: Kansas City.

The Islands — The South Florida metropolitan area, the Florida Keys, the Caribbean, and parts of Venezuela. Capital: Miami.

Mexamerica — the southern and Central Valley portions of California as well as southern Arizona, the portion of Texas bordering on the Rio Grande, most of New Mexico and all of Mexico, centered on either Los Angeles or Mexico City (depending on whom you ask), which are significantly Spanish-speaking. Garreau's original book did not place all of Mexico within Mexamerica, but only Northern Mexico and the Baja California peninsula. Capital: Los Angeles.

Ecotopia — the Pacific Northwest coast west of the Cascade Range, stretching from Alaska down through coastal British Columbia, Washington state, Oregon and into California just north of Santa Barbara. Capital: San Francisco.

The Empty Quarter — most of Alaska, Nevada, Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, Montana and Colorado from Denver west, as well as the eastern portions of Oregon, California, Washington, all of Alberta and Northern Canada (including Nunavut, although not yet created at that time), northern Arizona, parts of New Mexico, and British Columbia east of the Coast Ranges. Capital: Denver.

Quebec — the primarily French-speaking province of Canada, whose legislature is called the National Assembly of Quebec, and which has held referendums on secession in 1980 and 1995, the latter of which the "separatists" lost narrowly. Capital: Quebec City.


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Ideally using a POD after 1900 but I'm willing to listen to alternatives.
 
I remember the first time I saw the copy of that book my dad had, I actually thought it was an AH-type book. I was kinda disappointed (although not surprised, really) when it turned out to be nonfiction.

As for making it happen? Tough. Very tough. The problem is some of the countries (the Empty Quarter, anyone?) are really, really unviable.
 
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stalkere

Banned
Lord Kalvan?

Actually, this kind of looks like the Lord Kalvan timeline by H Beam Piper.

Actaully, I can't see either the Empty quarters not being owned by another nation, with chunks belonging to the nearest. With the mineral wealth in these areas, it'd probably be a bone to be fought over by the other nations.

Same thought goes for the Breadbasket. Most likely it would be owned by the others.

On third thought, this kind of looks like the major Native American Cultures in pre-columbian times, or maybe the map from SM Stirling's "Dies the Fire" timeline. Just make "The Foundry" into "the Death Zone"

Ed
 

Thande

Donor
I remember the first time I saw the copy of that book my dad had, I actually thought it was an AH-type book. I was kinda disappointed (although not surprised, really) when it turned out to be nonfiction.

As for making it happen? Tough. Very tough. The problem is some of the countries (the Empty Quarter, anyone?) are really, really unviable.

Empty Quarter could be the eventual result of a Hudson's Bay Company type thing having huge empty territories that one day become an independent dominion (presumably of the UK) with a tiny population.
 
So the US collapses, but the remnant US is still powerful enough to take the heart of Canada?

The US remnant could have been militarized and conquered Canada but by then the other counturies could have allied with Germany,Britain,Japan,Russia etc. Ecotopia probably would be a Japanese puppet.
 
The US remnant could have been militarized and conquered Canada but by then the other counturies could have allied with Germany,Britain,Japan,Russia etc. Ecotopia probably would be a Japanese puppet.
So you postulate that:

The US breaks up.

The Southwest is conquered by Mexico.

Part of Florida is captured by the Boat People's Junta.

The US militarizes, and, rather than taking back some of its own territory, invades Ontario.

West-central US and Canada form two nations, with an arbitrary border.

And the Japanese set up a puppet state, stretching from Mexico to Alaska.

Of course, that's discounting what New England is doing with Newfoundland...
 
So you postulate that:

The US breaks up.

The Southwest is conquered by Mexico.

Part of Florida is captured by the Boat People's Junta.

The US militarizes, and, rather than taking back some of its own territory, invades Ontario.

West-central US and Canada form two nations, with an arbitrary border.

And the Japanese set up a puppet state, stretching from Mexico to Alaska.

Of course, that's discounting what New England is doing with Newfoundland...

This is my own interpertation to answer your questions:

The Foundry-US remnant
New England/Newfoundland-British puppet. The British seized New England after America fell into chaos
Mexifornia-German puppet. Germany after winning World War 2 [ led by a man saner than Hitler] puppetized Mexico and helped them conquer California
Greater Cuba-Another German puppet
Empty Quarter-Anarchy
Great Plains-A communist state and a Soviet puppet
Neo-C.S.A-An independent state though aligned with Germany
Quebec-Another Soviet puppet
Ecotopia-Japanese puppet and part of Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere
 
Nine Nations of North America




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Ideally using a POD after 1900 but I'm willing to listen to alternatives.

A couple of comments after reading Garreau's book when it was first published, and after some travel: while I agree that southern Manitoba and Saskatchewan should be part of the Breadbasket (suggested more euphonious name: Vandalia), the Minnesota arrowhead, the northern part of Wisconsin, Michigan's Upper Peninsula, and the entire Lake Superior shore of Ontario should be part of the Empty Quarter (suggested more euphonious name: Athabasca). If you've ever done the drive around Superior, you'd know that the entire area is based entirely on extractive industries (logging; mining; smelting) and the growing season is sufficiently short to make agriculture minimal indeed (how about a growing season of 88 days in the interior of the Upper Peninsula?).

A few other more euphonious name suggestions: Caribbea for the region focused on Miami; Columbiana for the Foundry.

Now, about that POD: I'd make it the War of 1812. Had Madison been captured (a very near thing in OTL), that would have likely caused the collapse of the American war effort. The Hartford Convention may well have been revived and enforced, with New England breaking away (ironically, under British protection) and joined with what we know as the Maritime Provinces. With the rump of the US in flux, and with some in-migration of loyal New Englanders, it's not impossible to imagine that the stronger slaveholding states might well have split off at approximately the same time (although an influx of New Englanders would probably have kept MD and DE in the US).

At least that's a start.
 
Not sticking to the 1900 starting point, but here we go:

1830's - The Arookstook War becomes a literal war (against Britain, over Maine's northern border). The US is victorious, and their reward is the land that will later become "New England."

1844 - "54-40 or fight" leads to an actual fight...yet another border war with England, and yet another victory: America receives the land that will later become the Foundry and the Breadbasket.

1840's - However, while fighting the "54-40" war, Mexico seizes this opportunity to invade America and retake much of the land that was purchased from them following the Mexican American war. Rather than fight a war on two fronts, America quickly surrenders the land that now makes up Mexamerica.

1850's - The South is increasingly angered by the US's focus on wars expanding north (no slavery) versus expanding west, and surrendering potential slave states to Mexico. They threaten to seceed, forcing congress to compromise and move the slave boundary further north. New England is enraged by this, and seceeds instead. When President Buchanan doesn't declare war, the Southerns use this as their chance and seceed as well. New England and Dixie are formed.

1860's - The slavery issue is no longer a north-south issue, but instead becomes an east (industrialized) - west (farmland) issue. A civil war breaks out, until eventually both sides agree to just break free and start their own nations: Breadbasket and Foundry.

1870's Dixie attempts invasion of Spain-owned Cuba. They lose the war, and have to return part of Florida to Spain. However, the entire region later declares independence from Spain, becoming "Island"

1880's - North Britain wins independence from England, becomes "Quebec." Western pioneers from both North Britain and the various American nations have been populating the West Coast, declare the territory to be the independent nation of "Ecotopia."

Throughout all this time, the "Empty Quarter" has few inhabitants, and is not particularly desired by any of it's neighbors.

Ta-da!
 
The '70's go even worse for the USA than in OTl, and the seeming terminal decline continues and reaches a head in the third Oil Shock of 1983. Following the Sevre Recession of 81-82, in which President Carter attempted to further impose price controls that completely destabilized the economy, consumer and industrial confidence utterly fails as the price of oil spiked above $100. The manufacturing heartland of the USA stalled completey, with hundreds of factories closed and hundreds of thousands of workers thrown out of work.

On November 4th, 1984 VP Walter Mondale was elected as President, over the republican candidate George Bush by promising further socialization of the economy to save the working man from the predations of the corporate bosses. In an act of defiance, on January 19th, 1985, the states of New England jointly declared their cessation from the Union, stating that they couldn't bear even one day of Comrade Mondale's administration, after being burdened with Comrade Carter's failed policies. In the confusion over the transition no immediate action is taken by the Fed goverment, and the Western European Union recognizes the soveriegnty of New England on Jan. 24th, on the promise of reopened trade after the Carter-ordered protectionist barriers have been dropped.

The loss of New England is a serious blow to the authority of the central government, and of Mondale in particular. The heartland states, still reeling from the economic losses and completely dissillusioned the lack of effective response from Washington, form a bi-national economic sphere with Central Canada. Trade barriers are dropped, a new currency is founded, and joint institutions are created. This comes in 1987 after the Second Independence Referendum in Quebec is won by the Separtisits, leading to the dissolution of the Dominion. the Maritimes and Newfoundland align themselvers with the New England states, eventually becoming members in 1997. Quebec becomes an isolated, inward-looking state after declaring independence, relying heavily on support from France.

The remnant USA is fractured still further when the Southern States, seeing that the generous farming subsidies that they had enjoyed were to end, and unwilling to bend on 'traditional family values' with out the pay-off, disavow the Mondale administration. the cascade effect of dissolution leads to the Second Southern Seccession in 1987 (a big year in NorAm), this time unopposed as the federal government is frozen with all of the momentous changes that assault it.

In the resource-heavy west of both the USA and Canada, the governments of the day see the collapsing governments around them and decide to team-up for mutual protection. Close to a decade of closed international trade has made all areas of the continent dependent on the resources from these states and provinces. In order to maintain their customer base, and their own independence, the zone declares it is politically neutral to the competing claims around them, and by extension they are sepearte from those claims. A strict neutrality is observed, serving all sides impartially.

Mexico is bouyed throughout the 70's and 80's by high oil prices and open trade with S. America and Europe. This makes them a prosperous and attractive partner for the border states that are forgotten in the Great Upheaval across the rest of the USA. With the final collapse on Mondale's government in 1987, they quietly but firmly switch allegiance to Mexico. Los Angles and its environs sees massive population smovements and is eventually partitioned between the Latin Quarters and the Pacific Northwest.

In 1988 Miami is victim to massive protests, inter-community fighting and rioting. The strict 'family values' of the Dixie's is not easily swallowed by the latin families that hav emigrated there, especially the Cubans. Months of unrest enuse as the Dixe government in Savannah tries to deal with the problmes of setting up their new government. Eventually the Cuban army, covertly backed by the USSR, conducts an amphibious assault on the Florida Keys and the southern tip of Florida 'to restore peace and order'. There is a brief exchange of hostilities between the Cubans and the Dixie army, but it is inconclusive. Eventually the Dixes see a way to be rid of the troublesome (and sinful) Miamos and cede dade county to Cuba in exchange for full diplomatic relations and preferential trade treatment. The Cubans jump at this, and in the long run divorce themselves from the Russians and ally with the Dixies.

Lastly with the dissolution of Canada, the Province of British Columbia reaches southwards for allies. Cutoff by the neutral Empty Quarter they find common political and cultural allies in coastal Oregon, Washington and Northern California. The state interiors eventually feel oppressed by their coastal bretheren who see them as resource banks to hedge against the prices of the EQ. Throughout the 90's they individually vote to secede and join the EQ to better their terms of trade.
 
I see the northern parts of Vermont and New Hampshire, and perhaps parts of Maine joining Quebec. There is just so much cross-border trade and people-movement...
 
I see the northern parts of Vermont and New Hampshire, and perhaps parts of Maine joining Quebec. There is just so much cross-border trade and people-movement...
Really a full-out New England - Quebec Merger would make a lot of sense, except for that pesky language difference...
 
Empty Quarter could be the eventual result of a Hudson's Bay Company type thing having huge empty territories that one day become an independent dominion (presumably of the UK) with a tiny population.

Or even a rump Canada.
 
Part of Florida is captured by the Boat People's Junta.

Cross that out - make that the Boat People's Holy Roman Empire. :D

Of course, that's discounting what New England is doing with Newfoundland...

Well, language differences aside, I could see a possibility where Québec joins New England. If enough Francophones immigrated to New England, eventually French would be an official language alongside English. Fiknd a way of not getting the KKK into New England, and the French language would still be viable in New England. Then, Québec (and, by analogy, Atlantic Canada, which IMO requires a 19th-century POD) would have to secede from Canada and join New England.

As for Newfoundland - the 1930s go as OTL, and a movement develops to make Newfoundland part of New England. In 1949, during the referendum process, Newfies reject joining Confederation and prefer to join New England instead.
 
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