AH Challenge: Nazi Russia

Your challenge, should you choose to accept it, is to have a far right-wing, racist, genocidal regime rise up in Russia, with a POD after the beginning of WW1. The Soviets cannot take power, and neither can the OTL Nazis. Furthermore, the regime must start at least one major war. I'll accept scenarios, but bonus points for a full TL.
 
Hrm. I like to parrot EdT's idea of a Tsarist Russia without 1905 gradually transforming itself into a Black Hundredsish clerical-fascist state in threads on this topic (late Tsarist Russia was pretty right-wing and racist to begin with), but that's after the PoD. I'd imagine such a regime as authoritarian and casually brutal rather than totalitarian and exterminatory, but although I find a *Holocaust in Russia difficult to imagine, I can certainly see some ethnic groups (in the North Caucasus, for example) all but vanishing altogether.

But that doesn't fir with the PoD, though. The Whites were not nice people in the slightest, but a White "victory" is more likely to result in warlordism than in an organised, powerful regime like that of Stalin or Hitler.

So I'd say one of the following quick sketches would about fit the bill:

-Ottomans neutral, Entente lucky, *Brusilov offensive is the last straw for Austria-Hungary, Entente win the war early. The Tsarist regime has consolidated itself by the short victorious war, but radical army officers (possibly including the familiar White Army gang) hijack the regime in alliance with the Black Hundreds and lead it into fascism from the top.

-No Lenin, Russia has only one revolution, accepts the first B-L treaty, and ends up something like interwar Italy: a winner on points, but devestated, severely in debt, with major social strains only made clearer by war and a politicised army. Once again, military radicals and Black Hundreds ally, but this time rather than court-politics we have some sort of populist mass-movement in the 1920s or 1930s like OTL's fascist countries; that or a military coup against an excessively lefty government like the Spanish putsch before it went wrong.

The reason I'm not as fond of these options for this scenario is that they both leave Russia with gaping chasms in its society between the haves and have-nots which, after 1905 had exposed them, weren't just going to go away; and because both leave Russia with the Tsarist economic boom out of steam and a fat debt (and the latter with its industrial centre in Poland lost), making it harder for Russia to be credible world-war fighter. Before Stalin's crash-industrialisation, Russia really did have no chance against modern industrial powers; and with the effects of WW1, I doubt Russia can achieve anything like equivelant industrialisation by mixed-economy means.
 
1917: The Czar is overthrowed, Mencheviks seizes power.
Bolcheviks moves a few months later later, Mencheviks and Bolcheviks struggles frantically against each other, Bolceviks supported by the Germans and Mencheviks supported by the allies. Independent warlords begin to rise across the former Russian Empire. The Leader works to increase his own power across the former Russian Empire, destroy the power of the Mencheviks and obtain contacts with numerous warlords. He is more insightfull than most white leaders, seeing the need to gain popular support. His rule alternates terror and opportunity for those who collaborates with him, thus his reformes doesn´t alienate too much the aristocrats.
1918: Then, the Bolcheviks wins in the west and moves against The Leader, which unites most white forces by negociations or by force.
The Leader contains,
1919: then defeats the bolchevik armies, moves into Western Russian Empire.
1920: Poland loves against Moscow, fails, Bolcheviks launch a quick counter-attack but opportunity for white forces to triumph is opened. By the end of the year, Leningrad and Moscow are isolated and starved.
1921: Leningrad becomes Petrograd, after The Leader´s forces win in pitched street battles. Remaining bolcheviks flee the country, some are caught in Moscow where another siege begin.
1922: Fall of Moscow, Japanese forces are defeated after attempting to seize Siberia, the defeated are allowed back hovewer and the Leader sign a treaty with Japan to allow the Japanese not to loose face.
1923: Pilduski seizes power, he immediately launch a preventive attack on Russian forces, Polish forces are soundly defeated.
Unlike the bolcheviks, the Leader does not attempta run for Warsaw, instead concentrating in liberating regions annexed by Poland but does not attempt to gain a foothold on ethnically Polish regions.
Reconstruction policies begin, limited in the national scale at first, then rapidly increased.
Relations with Italian fascists and other "right-wing" or counter left-wing movements begin.
The Leader begin plotting the downfall of one warlord after the other, installe people with similar ideology as his own in power.
1925: Attempted insurrections are quickly crushed, power of the National-Socialist Cooperative Party increases.
1927: The Leader assist the Japanese in installing a better puppet governement in Mandchuko, in return for Sakhalin to return to the Imperium of Rus.
The Imperium of Rus also begin rounding-upp caucasians and central asian in massive worker camps, communities are no longer taxed but atomised and fed into the state worker planning management. System much like an army but with workers instead of soldiers.
1930: Wall Street Crash, the Leader move to seize full power in the Imperium of Rus, relegating the old aristocracy to secondary roles, powerless against the new system.
Large-scale, nationwide industrialisation really begins, militarists also seizes power in Japan. Both countries begin join experimentation on humans for chemical, biological and radiological weapons, as well as brainwashing technics.
offical Autarch title, second in power is the League.
1931: Gypsies and jews that have not fled the country are rounded up in Isolation Camps, ethnic minorities are all relegated to camps and restricted areas.
Military alliance between Iran and the Imperium of Rus, Sha of Iran want an Iranian National-Socialist system.
Major protests in Germany defeat a coup attempt by the junkers, communists have increased influence.
1932: KPD is the biggest party in Germany, only an alliance of other forces and heer threats keeps the communsits from seizing power.
1933: Dolfus seizes power in Austria, secures complete power with the help of the Italian army.
Railway integration system between Mandchuko, Empire of Japan, Imperium of Rus and Iran. Large-scale preparations for the defence of Iran are made.
1936: The KPD finally seizes power in Germany, while Popular fronts takes power in France and Spain.
In Spain, division between communists, anarchists and Falangists result in pitched street battles, then bombings and guerilla attacks.
Late in 1936, military coup is attempted by the Heer in Germany, which faces workers insurrection. The coupists have less than 100 000 soldiers to maintain order and have to reply on Freikorps for any semblance of order, but this only works in southern Germany.
1937: French governement falls, Spain errupts in all-out war, Italians and Imperium forces intervenes in Spain and in lesser measure, Germany.
Junkers are defeated and form a governement-in-exile in Austria, Himmler formes a governement-in-exile in the Imperium of Rus.
1938: 2 millions Russians are fighting in Spain, with Falangist and Italian auxiliaries, they win against all opposition.
Germany invades Austria, signs treaty with Romania, Czechoslovakia, Poland and Yugoslavia to keep Italy, Hungarya and the Imperium of Rus to intervene.
Hungarya begin closer cooperation with Italy and the Imperium of Rus, mainly intelligence exchange.
1939: Falangists seizes power with Imperial and Italian support. Japan launch a major offensive into China, which soon boggs down, French and English support for the Chinese begins.
1940: Japanese and Manchus again conquers little of China, negociations with the Imperium are opened. Italian threats to the Imperium of Rus results in a Czechoslovake-Romanian-German invasion of that country, fearing too early battle would be lost.
1941: The Imperium of Rus seizes parts of western and central China, assist the Japanese in defeating the Chinese nationalists.
Franco-English-German "peace treaty" is signed, the Germans installes the Polish communists in power, then moves against the Sudetelands and Romania.
1942: China is finally partitonned between Tokyo and Petrograd, rest of the Czech state becomes a Socialist Democratic State Republic of the German federation, Slovakia seccedes and sides with the Hungarians.
Yugoslavia is also seized, Hungarya is isolated, the Autarch threaten jews worldwide should war start, Germany mobilizes for an offensive on May 15th 1943.
1943: May 5th, Imperium of Rus launch a major offensive against German forces along the Polish and Romanian borders, as they prepared for their offensive into Imperial territory.
As they fully prepared for an offensive war, concnetrated all their forces withing a dozen miles of the Imperium, their forces are utterly defeated by Piercing Warfare, over 85% of the German ammunition factoriers where less than 300 kilometers from the border for easier supplying.
France and England declares war over this unprovoked attack, Japan declares war to the allies.
Spain, Italy and Iran are mobilizing but are ordered by the Autarch to wait until the situation is better for them.
Hungarian army breakes through defences in Yugoslavia, Bulgaria attacks Yugoslavia too, anti-communist military coup occures in Belgrad.
Within months, Czechoslovakia is crushed by an attack through Austria SDSR, Slovakia and Poland, Berlin and Hamburg are seized.
Franceo-English forces containes the Imperium in western Germany, Imperial invasion of Norway begin. "Full in the mouth" plan concerning jews, gypsies and other such groups is applied by the Autarch.
1944: By May, the allie have been defeated and retreated to the Rhineland, where the allies struggles with the Imperium for airsuperiority, Imperium bombers and fighter-bombers cleares the way along with artillery.
Rhine line is breached by June, Imperial armies starts moving through in July.
Between July and October, Holland, Belgium and France are invaded by the Imperium of Rus. Italy and Spain have declares war.
Japan have triumphed in asia, cooprosperity sphere extending from Indonesia to Vietnam to Myanamar while India have faced a revolution supported by Japanese and Rus forces.
In November, offensive starts from Iran into Iraq, while Bulgaria, Italy, Greece and Rus invades turkey.
Anti-Imperium president Wallace elected, the US begin mobilizing.
1945: The forces of the Imperium of Rus are active in northern France and Belgium, Imperial Flying Forces have supremacy through better training, engineering and numbers.
6 and 8 engin bombers keeps the channel clear of the Royal Navy, the Autarch boast of the Imperium´s ultimate triumph against the hated west.
On April 20th, false offensive is launched, mostly radio-guided barges. On April 30th, invasion begins.
By May 2nd, the invaders have a foothold, defenders have no match against the massive Imperial tanks except heavy artillery pieces, which the IFF have destroyed.
May 9th, the USA declares war to the Imperium of Rus. In the summer of 1945, London is devastated and Imperial forces rampages through former England, only in Scotland and Wales do some forces still resist.
Americans sends reinforcements through Irland but that becomes increasingly difficult under the increased range of the IFF.
August 15th, the US fleet is moved toward the Phillipines, form where the US intend to take back Indonesia and northern Australia.
2nd September 1945, Japanese attacks have sunk the US pacific fleet, US and Japan are at war.
 
Some... interesting ideas, but I note that the "Leader" is able to win because the Poles distract the Bolsheviks. Leaving the Bolsheviks to consolidate their hold on central Russia because he knew they would be more willing to countenance Polish independence and easier to squeeze the kresy out of was Pilsudski's specific plan, cunning fellow that he was.

Like I say, I'm dubious about White prospects in the civil war: they could defeat the Bolsheviks, but the Bolsheviks were about the only people about who were able to found a credible state. That's why they won OTL. In OTL, those people who were Russian nationalists but sufficiently pragmatic to recognise that bands of landlords, officers, and Cossacks roaming Russia shooting workers wasn't a sound basis for a nationalist state followed Brusilov and went Bolshevik.

Like I said, I struggle to imagine particularly Nazi-esque ethnic policies because Russia isn't Germany: national minorities are substantial and compact. Far-right Russia certainly isn't good news for Azeris or Tatars, but if you put them all in camps, who works their farms?
 
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Some... interesting ideas, but I note that the "Leader" is able to win because the Poles distract the Bolsheviks. Leaving the Bolsheviks to consolidate their hold on central Russia because he knew they would be more willing to countenance Polish independence and easier to squeeze the kresy out of was Pilsudski's specific plan, cunning fellow, that he was.

Like I say, I'm dubious about White prospects in the civil war: they could defeat the Bolsheviks, but the Bolsheviks were about the only people about who were able to found a credible state. That's why they won OTL. In OTL, those people who were Russian nationalists but sufficiently pragmatic to recognise that bands of landlords, officers, and Cossacks roaming Russia shooting workers wasn't a sound basis for a nationalist state followed Brusilov and went Bolshevik.

Like I said, I struggle to imagine particularly Nazi-esque ethnic policies because Russia isn't Germany: national minorities are substantial and compact. Far-right Russia certainly isn't good news for Azeris or Tatars, but if you put them all in camps, who works their farms?

Which is what the Leaders do, gather popular support and organise a semi-working state, have the factories run when they can.
That way, not only are the bolcheviks defeated but once that is done, there is no major counter to the expansion of the NSCP.
Warlords aren´t able to start, nor have the popular support if they where able to, they are dealth with one after the other. Some accept retirement, flee to other countries, others are made into an example.
Early in the Leader´s rule, things aren´t that different from 1914 for the minorities, it is only after a while that the situation progressively change and differently for every group, often using inter-tribal rivalities.
Full mass deportations only comes at a time when the Imperium is substantially industrialised, have a large army when and the state is properly able to organize them.
Farms are turned into collective farms, very poor peasants and former quasi-serfs, people with little to loose, are recruted and trained to use them.
Instead of directly attacking the kulaks, The Leader first attack their ability to exploit others, eventually he does collectivise nationwide but only against those not supporting the NSCP or simply prooves not productive enough, with some previous experience in the matter.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
Your challenge, should you choose to accept it, is to have a far right-wing, racist, genocidal regime rise up in Russia, with a POD after the beginning of WW1. The Soviets cannot take power, and neither can the OTL Nazis. Furthermore, the regime must start at least one major war. I'll accept scenarios, but bonus points for a full TL.
Can we just clarify if this regime is to national socialist or if it is to be fascist, because there are some important differences.

One word: Wrangel.
One word: Bah.

Vrangel was possibly the least insane, brutal, or cruel of all the White generals. In fact, his rule over territories he controlled was characterized by skillful and just governance and a tight rein being kept on White troops that otherwise would have raped and looted at their whim.

Now Denikin or Yudenich or Semyonov or Kornilov or that wack-job Ungern fon Shternberg, these are all people who would have quickly allowed for genocidal fascism to take hold in Russia. Kolchak would probably have fallen into this too, though only under pressure from men such as those previously mentioned or their intellectual supporters like Purishkevich and Markov and Dubrovin.
 
Can we just clarify if this regime is to national socialist or if it is to be fascist, because there are some important differences.


One word: Bah.

Vrangel was possibly the least insane, brutal, or cruel of all the White generals. In fact, his rule over territories he controlled was characterized by skillful and just governance and a tight rein being kept on White troops that otherwise would have raped and looted at their whim.

Now Denikin or Yudenich or Semyonov or Kornilov or that wack-job Ungern fon Shternberg, these are all people who would have quickly allowed for genocidal fascism to take hold in Russia. Kolchak would probably have fallen into this too, though only under pressure from men such as those previously mentioned or their intellectual supporters like Purishkevich and Markov and Dubrovin.

Shternberg! Damn it, I knew there was a better candidate in the back of my mind. Yes, he'd be a wonderfully doollally dictator. You're right about Wrangel, really - I do think he could have become something of a Himmler or Beria, though - coldly calculating but with no qualms about anything that shored up his powerful position.
 
I can see Denikin losing control pretty fast esp. if the whites "win" and then start jockeying for actual power; he probably couldn't even keep control of his own faction, and he had many many nasty people serving under him. I don't think he himself was a bad guy in a Nazi sense, just not a good potential ruler.

Re: Sternberg etc. - because of the Cossack aspect of this, Russian fascism may well go easy on our traditional "martial races" i.e. all the Mongols and whatnot, but the Jews are a prime target, as always, and the "Caucasians" are another good one.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
Okay, here's my rundown of what I believe would be the most likely White-victory scenario.

The Whites win in late-1919-early 1920, something that is very, very plausible. A junta is established between Denikin, Wrangel, Kolchak, and Yudenich. It is decided that Wrangel becomes head of government (probably alongside Milyukov and Pepelyayev) while Denikin and Yudenich are put in charge of the military. Kolchak becomes an élément grise in Russian politics, sort of like Hindenburg; a figure given deference who sort of stays behind the scenes but is the man to call when "decisive measures" must be taken to reestablish "order."

Meanwhile, the near-universally beloved Grand Duke Nikolai becomes Tsar, though this time he is a constitutional monarch with negligible power at best. This not only satisfies traditionalists and democrats, but also provides the nation with an untainted figurehead that pretty much everybody can rally around.

After an ill-fated Russian experiment with parliamentary democracy (à la Weimar Germany), Kolchak (at the urging of Grand Duke Cyril who ascended the throne in 1929) finally steps in to reestablish "law and order" and becomes the de facto dictator of Russia. People who present a threat to his new order like Denikin and Kutepov and much of the Army high-command will probably be purged.

Kolchak probably dies some time in the '30s. During and after his reign, movements like Aleksandr Kazem-Bek's Mladorossi gains momentum with its unique and popular (and typically fascist) slogans promoting both industrialization/modernization and traditionalism. Mladorossi or something with a similar name but in the same mold becomes the major (and eventually only) political party in Russia.

The charismatic and handsome Kazem-Bek becomes dictator after Kolchak kicks the bucket. How long his rule lasts is debateable due to his being of Azeri stock, but the major point is that his general philosophy (Tsar and the Soviets!) becomes the norm. His most likely successor is Anastasy Vonsyatsky (who may not be bigoted enough), maybe Konstantin Rodzayevsky.

Ethnicities that will most likely be targeted under the Whites (and I'm assuming we have pre-WWII Soviet borders here) are Jews (of course), Poles, Gypsies, Ukrainians (i.e. people who regard themselves as "Ukrainians" rather than "Little Russians"), Volga Germans, Crimean Karaites, possibly Chinese, perhaps Finns, and maybe Azeris depending on if and how far Kazem-Bek falls. Obviously gays and non-Orthodox will be persecuted, the only exception being Muslims. Also expect a great deal of anti-Western sentiment.

Caucasians and Central Asian tribesmen like Kazakhs and Uzbeks and Turkmen will in all likelihood not be targed for two main reasons; the anti-Bolshevism that the majority of these groups displayed, and the distinct lack of general anti-Russian sentiment amongst them. In fact, the tribesmen will probably join the Cossacks in the pantheon of "martial races" (excellent insight, RGB). Again, the fate of Azeris largely depends on the success or failure of Kazem-Bek.

Interestingly, the concept of "sophisticated secret policemen vs. partisan street thugs" like we see exemplefied in the rivalry between the SS and SA already existed in Imperial Russia. The "sophisticated" aspect—the Okhranawill be reestablished, expanded, and revitalized under the leadership of people like Mikhail Diterikhs. The "street thug" element will lie in the resurrected Yellow Shirts under the command of somebody like Lev Okhotin or Gen. Vladimir Kozmin.

Another thing of note is the viability of Konstantin Rodzayevsky as the successor to basically any post. Head of the Okhrana, head of the Yellow Shirts, even Vozhd (or whatever the head honcho spot is called); Rodzayevsk could potentially succeed to any one (or perhaps even two) of these positions.

Basically, the regime we get is a cross between Iron Guard Romania and Francoist Spain alongside some major elements of clerical fascism. IBC (one of the foremost authorities this board has to offer with regards to Russia) is quite right in saying that a "Nazi Russia" is extremely unlikely and almost unimaginable for a host of reasons. A "fascist Russia," however, is well within the realm of possibility.

You wanted a major war, and this too is easy. This regime will be rabidly opposed to the independence of Finland, the Baltic states, and especially (perhaps even monomaniacally) Poland. Now, the West may very well allow the Baltic States to fall, perhaps even Finland. Whether or not they allow Poland to fall is up in the air, but you can count on some sort of Russo-Polish War to break out at some point.
 
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Your challenge, should you choose to accept it, is to have a far right-wing, racist, genocidal regime rise up in Russia, with a POD after the beginning of WW1. The Soviets cannot take power, and neither can the OTL Nazis. Furthermore, the regime must start at least one major war. I'll accept scenarios, but bonus points for a full TL.

Russia goes Nationalist after the collapse of the Soviet Union. In short, whoever replaces Putin is a lot nastier fellow who has decided to do things like wipe out the Chechens and rejects Islam through deportations, ethnic cleansing and forced conversion.

The PoD for this would be 1980s or so, well after WWII.

Erm, on second thought, this would require massive rewriting to comply with the scenario. Probably better to stick with the White victories above.
 
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