AH Challenge: Most redundant American military

[Alamo]

Overlapping service branches in the American military is a common complaint. Well, an ASB that happened to be passing through decides to have a touch of fun, and has come up with a challenge - with a POD in 1900, just how many different, overlapping armed services and sub-service branches can the US have? How ridiculous can things get? An America where the Key West Agreement never took place and the Army still has fighter and attack aircraft of its own? An independent ICBM, or Air Defense force similar to that of the Soviet Union? Rebuilt state naval-militias with their own surplus capital ships? Go wild!

 

[I want to learn]

Intelligence agencies could get in on things too. The CIA has operated drones, and earlier than that, U-2 spy planes.

 

[Landshark]

Let's see.

First off there's the five service branches, the United States Army, the United States Navy, the United States Marine Corps, the United States Air Force and the United States Coast Guard, (the National Guard and Air National Guard aren't really separate branches but reserves for the army and air force).

Well you can create a sixth branch, the United States Military Medical Corps, a separate medical service that provides field hospitals, shipboard medical care and battlefield medics to the other branches. There are a few countries in NATO that already have this arrangement and the USMC depends on the USN for it's medics and hospitals, and it's an idea with a great deal of merit as medical needs are pretty similar for all the services and the USMMC would allow you to combine training and funding into one service without the redundancy of four different ones.

You can also create a seventh branch as the OP suggests by creating an independent strategic missile force. Sometime in the 40's or 50's the administration gets tired of the tri-service fighting over the nuclear pie and worrying about having three different chains of command with nuclear release authority decides to centralise nuclear weapons under one command, the United States Strategic Weapons Force. USSWF takes over the USAF's missile silos and nuclear armed bombers, the USA's tactical nukes and puts Weapons Release Officers on the USN's missile subs.

Finally there's the possibility of an eighth branch. A gendarmerie. It's a bit tricky to pull off under the US system but it could be doable. An independent military police force for guarding military bases and providing law enforcement for all the other services. (The biggest TV show of this TL is Naval USGIS)

So that's now seven service arms.

Also as the OP suggest the USArmy can retain it's own air force. Close air support has always been controversial in the US, the army doesn't think the air force pays it enough attention and the air force thinks it distracts from their real job of flying supersonic jet fighters and really big bombers. So when the USAF is formed in 1947 it takes air defence, strategic bombing and airlift while the USAAC takes tactical and close air support and helicopters. After a few years the USAAC becomes the USAAF again and becomes a separate from the army much like the USMC is separate from the navy.

The USN keen to get into the air support game increases it's land based air arm to be much like Soviet Naval Aviation with heavy bombers and fighters to go with it's maritime patrol planes. The navy could also gain the army's coastal artillery role with a coastal defence force of fixed strong points, self propelled artillery and anti ship missiles and naval infantry.

Finally the USAF, which has lost frontal aviation to the army and strategic bombing to the USSWF, reinvents itself with an emphasis on air defence with SAM's and interceptors. After a few years this gets hived off into it's own arm.

So in 2014 you have something like this.

The Department of Defense which is subdivided into:

The Department of the Army: United States Army and United States Army Air Force

The Department of the Navy: United States Navy, United States Naval Aviation, United States Coastal Defense, United States Coast Guard and the United States Marine Corps

The Department of the Air Force: United States Air Force and United States Air Defense Force

The Department of Strategic Weapons: United States Strategic Weapons Force

The Department of Gendarmerie: United States Gendarmerie

The Department of Medical Services: United States Military Medical Corps

 

[Corbell Mark IV]

Let's see.

...
Finally there's the possibility of an eighth branch. A gendarmerie. It's a bit tricky to pull off under the US system but it could be doable. An independent military police force for guarding military bases and providing law enforcement for all the other services. (The biggest TV show of this TL is Naval USGIS)
...

This can also grow to include training specifically for occupation duties.


Indeed, if we have a situation with long term occupations, where local corruption is seen as a serious problem, importing outside, and thus neutral and less corrupt police and legal workers, could become a large operation.

And could even have sub branches for each country they are helping to run.


Also, add in Space Branch. With some quick launch space "fighters", and/or anti-sat stuff, spies sats, and of course Orbit to Ground weapons (either orbital bombs or Rods From God).

 

[Carl Schwamberger]

Let's see.

First off there's the five service branches, the United States Army, the United States Navy, the United States Marine Corps, the United States Air Force and the United States Coast Guard, (the National Guard and Air National Guard aren't really separate branches but reserves for the army and air force).

Well you can create a sixth branch, the United States Military Medical Corps...

You can also create a seventh branch as the OP suggests by creating an independent strategic missile force. ...

Finally there's the possibility of an eighth branch. A gendarmerie. ...

So that's now seven service arms.

.....

So in 2014 you have something like this.

The Department of Defense which is subdivided into:

The Department of the Army: United States Army and United States Army Air Force

The Department of the Navy: United States Navy, United States Naval Aviation, United States Coastal Defense, United States Coast Guard and the United States Marine Corps

The Department of the Air Force: United States Air Force and United States Air Defense Force

The Department of Strategic Weapons: United States Strategic Weapons Force

The Department of Gendarmerie: United States Gendarmerie

The Department of Medical Services: United States Military Medical Corps

That is showing paralles to the old Soviet military system with what seemed like a dozen seperate branches.

 

[Landshark]

That is showing paralles to the old Soviet military system with what seemed like a dozen seperate branches.

That did provide some inspiration.

 

[Summoner]

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Armed_Forces Soviets had a separate branch for Air Defense and for Strategic Rocket Forces

 

[Marc Pasquin]

Maybe a Coastal Defence separate from the Coast Guard ? the later would provide the ships at sea but the former, which would date back to the war of 1812 or the revolution,would have originaly been in charge of coastal artillery and forts. In the modern era, their role would be more about patroling the shore-line for illegal immigrants and apprehending those who have made it inland. Instead or in addition, they could include runing lighthouses and port authority.

Homeland Security could have it's own uniformed redundant equivalents to all 3 basic branches which would turn it into an even creepier organisation.

To make matters more confusing, instead of a national guard, you could still have a separate Federal Army and States Militias, the later having as their commander in chief the State governor.

Civil Defence could be organised along a more military apperance like Australia's SES but at the federal level.

Considering the amount of involvement oversea, The US could also have developed a Foreign Auxiliary Corps commanded by US officers but with non-US citizens as troops and NCO.

 

[Landshark]

Maybe a Coastal Defence separate from the Coast Guard ? the later would provide the ships at sea but the former, which would date back to the war of 1812 or the revolution,would have originaly been in charge of coastal artillery and forts. In the modern era, their role would be more about patroling the shore-line for illegal immigrants and apprehending those who have made it inland. Instead or in addition, they could include runing lighthouses and port authority.

I suggested that above.

Homeland Security could have it's own uniformed redundant equivalents to all 3 basic branches which would turn it into an even creepier organisation.

Not entirely sure you'd be able to get that past Congress, it seems very un-American in the good sense of the term.

To make matters more confusing, instead of a national guard, you could still have a separate Federal Army and States Militias, the later having as their commander in chief the State governor.

Some state have those in OTL, there's an article on Wikipedia, if you have a look on the US Military portal there's a link to it next to the one for the National Guard.

Civil Defence could be organised along a more military apperance like Australia's SES but at the federal level.

Like the Uniformed Public Health Service, kind of a uniformed FEMA? You could do the same with the US Army Corps of Engineers.

Considering the amount of involvement oversea, The US could also have developed a Foreign Auxiliary Corps commanded by US officers but with non-US citizens as troops and NCO.

Again I can't see congress going for an American Foreign Legion.

 

[Locke01]

United States Department of the Special Operations, anyone? The special operators totally need to be a fully independent service. Being a unified combatant command just isn't high enough in the military food chain for those guys!

 

[Marc Pasquin]

I suggested that above.

great minds thinks alike

Not entirely sure you'd be able to get that past Congress, it seems very un-American in the good sense of the term.

would depend how it is presented: "internal security troops to prevent uprising", probably not but "strengthening our first line of defence against terrorism", probably fairly easy.

Some state have those in OTL, there's an article on Wikipedia, if you have a look on the US Military portal there's a link to it next to the one for the National Guard.

I was thinking more along the lines of replacing the national guards with the state militias so that it's not people who can't serve in the regular army but people who could but prefer to do so part time. In other words, you would have to resign from a state militia to serve in the federal army, making 50+1 armies serving in the US

Like the Uniformed Public Health Service, kind of a uniformed FEMA? You could do the same with the US Army Corps of Engineers.

That would probably work, weren't the US corps of engineers originaly civilians back in the days ?

Again I can't see congress going for an American Foreign Legion.

Not that far fetched, the US have used auxiliaries in the past and have formed other countries military. In addition, it is possible under some circumstances for a non-citizen to serve in the army so making a formal arrangement for all foreigners would just be taking it one step further.

 

[Neirdak]

If you have US Marines with their own land, naval and air forces. You could give them their own department called "US Marines Department". I would also add a "Expeditionary Forces Department" under which you would find :

- Expeditionary Forces.
- Specialized Desert units.
- Specialized Mountain and Arctic units.
- Jungle units.
- Paratroopers and gliders Corps.
- Maritime Operational Logistics and Transport.
- Counter-insurgency task forces.

Another nice department would be the "United States Department of Military Intelligence and Special Operations", which would compete with other intelligence agencies of the military.

You can add the "Civil-military operations Department" established for coordinating and maximizing the effects of civil-military operations in an area of operations.

A "Military Linguistics and Deciphering Department" would be funny too. It would train and command the military translators and have its own analysts. They wouldn't control the translators of the "Expeditionary Forces Department" and the "US Marines translators Corps" who are trained by their own departments.

A "Military Public Relations Department" could be interesting too and useful.

 

[Marc Pasquin]

"Department of Inter-Armed Forces Departmental Affairs"

Big budget but no one ask what they do.

NO.....ONE......

 

[Landshark]

United States Department of the Special Operations, anyone? The special operators totally need to be a fully independent service. Being a unified combatant command just isn't high enough in the military food chain for those guys!

I read that someone suggested that some years ago. It was to get around the regular chain of command's dislike of special forces. The guy's reasoning was that creating a separate special forces branch would remove budget conflicts so that Green Berets and Rangers wouldn't have to compete against carrier groups and stealth bombers for funding and retain talent as officers wouldn't have to rotate out of the SF to get promoted.

 

[Locke01]

"Department of Inter-Armed Forces Departmental Affairs"

Big budget but no one ask what they do.

NO.....ONE......

As a bit of historical trivia, during the Second World War, the British created the rather bland-sounding Inter-Service Liaison Department to provide cover for the Secret Intelligence Service in the Middle East and Far East.

 

[Locke01]

I read that someone suggested that some years ago. It was to get around the regular chain of command's dislike of special forces. The guy's reasoning was that creating a separate special forces branch would remove budget conflicts so that Green Berets and Rangers wouldn't have to compete against carrier groups and stealth bombers for funding and retain talent as officers wouldn't have to rotate out of the SF to get promoted.

Yeah, the idea has been floated in recent years. How serious the concept is taken, I don't know.

 

[jlckansas]

Coastal defense department

Coastal defense department as part of DOD would be a really good reality. You would need to have something like a Spanish ship/fleet or Central powers attacking the US in their respective wars to bring it about. You had the US Army Coastal Artillery Corps commanding all the forts, having minefields and such at this time period. Add in things like PT boats and such for a naval component and then aircraft during and after WWI.

You would then have in WWII a force consisting of:
Forts and coastal defenses including Anti aircraft.
Minefields at sea.
Scouting and attack aircraft, things like PBY's, Blimps, PB4Y's, SBD,TBF.
PT boats, Frigates, minelayers and sweepers, corvettes, net tenders.
Radar installations.


After WW2 and into the cold war and beyond you would have things like:

Fighter defenses of the coastal areas
Forts
SAM missiles
Anti ship missiles
SOSUS
Radar
Patrol and attack aircraft
Coast guard
All things related to the coastal defense of the US.