AH Challenge: Karelian Isthmus Returned

Germaniac

Donor
You challenge is to have the Karelian Isthmus returned to Finland with a POD no Earlier that the Moscow Peace Treaty. Bonus Points for Greater Finland.
 
I think the Soviets/Russians offered to return it when Soviet fell but it would have cost to much restoring it to Finnish standards. I also suppose property issues might be a problem. So, maybe if Finland join EU early, they might team up withj Germany to to get some money from there.
 
Maybe if Finland had refused German troops in their borders and attacked on their own during early Barbarossa stopping after they,ve retaken their territory and try and make peace with the Soviets.

It would be hard for the allies to justify the Soviets retaking the place peace or not.
 
Operation Unthinkable happens, one way or another - probably Soviet and WAlly troops firing on each other near Berlin and neither side backs down due to a comedy of errors.

Soviets push further into Germany, America goes 'Russia stabbed us in the back' and fully mobilizes. WAllies push slowly forward through Germany, recruiting German soldiers, maybe even ex-Wehrmacht units. When WAllies are pushing through Poland and obviously going to win (Russia having lost a army and a couple of cities to Abombs), Finland declares war on Russia.

While not much help, they did join in, and no one else wants the land, so when the USSR is carved into little pieces (e.g. all the SSRs become independent, with e.g. Ukraine reaching to Georgia), Finland gets a chunk for its help.
 
The USSR proposed to return the Istmus to Finland in August, 1941, in exchange for peace on Finno-Soviet border and expulsion of the Wehrmacht from Finnish territory. Of course, it'd mean Finno-German war, so Finns (wisely) had refused.
 
I think the Soviets/Russians offered to return it when Soviet fell but it would have cost to much restoring it to Finnish standards. I also suppose property issues might be a problem. So, maybe if Finland join EU early, they might team up withj Germany to to get some money from there.
Where do you take your info?:(
Any official proposing to give up any Russian territory would have be overthrown immediately. The Japanese really want the Kuriles back (unlike Finns with the Karelia), but nobody in Russia can satisfy Japanese (somewhat reasonable) demands.
There was in early 1990-ies (and, maybe, it even exists now) small group of Karelians wishing to join Finland and enjoy its prosperity. But they were/are very small minority in the Karelia itself, and even more so in all Russia.
 
Where do you take your info?:(
Any official proposing to give up any Russian territory would have be overthrown immediately. The Japanese really want the Kuriles back (unlike Finns with the Karelia), but nobody in Russia can satisfy Japanese (somewhat reasonable) demands.
There was in early 1990-ies (and, maybe, it even exists now) small group of Karelians wishing to join Finland and enjoy its prosperity. But they were/are very small minority in the Karelia itself, and even more so in all Russia.

Yeltsin did offer to give the Karelian Isthmus back during the mid-90's. Where did you get your info from?

The Kuril Islands have high strategic and economic value, in terms of fisheries and also mineral deposits of pyrite, sulfur, and various polymetallic ores. So Russia has good reason to keep them or at least ask for a good price or trade deals in return. (Half the population is also Ethnic Russian at this point so there issues there too, and Japan knows it couldnt win a plebiscite)

Russia has more claim to Crimea (or at least Sevastopol) than Ukranie dose in every respect, Ukranie only 'got' Crimea due to a fluke when Khrushchev pretty much gave it to Ukranie as a gift in the 1950's. Despite that I dont see many people in Kiev wanting to give Crimea back to Russia.:p

For the same reason Russia wont give Kuril back to Japan. No nation will ever just 'hand over' good land unless they get somthing in return.:rolleyes:
 
Yeltsin did offer to give the Karelian Isthmus back during the mid-90's. Where did you get your info from?
In 1994 Boris Yeltsin commented that "seizure of Finnish Karelia" was an example of Stalin's totalitarian and aggressive politics. Later in 1997 he stated that the matter was closed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karelian_question_in_Finnish_politics
Of course, it's Wiki, but Russian, as well as Finnish sources agree that there were no serious intent on the Russian side to give the Karelian Isthmus back.See, e.g.,here, or there.
For the same reason Russia wont give Kuril back to Japan. No nation will ever just 'hand over' good land unless they get somthing in return.:rolleyes:
Yes, and the Karelia is at least as good as the Kuriles (more populated, near great city, iron ore of Kostomuksha, and so on).
 
The Soviets severely punished Finland after the peace in 1944 with very high repairation payments which crippled the country's economy well into the 1960's. Yet this was the best deal Finland could have hoped for considering the situation at the time. So, Finland would only have regained this territory in the event of a joint victory over the Soviets, either with the Nazis or even the Allies.
The most likely scenario however, is that Finland is overrun by the Red Army in 1944, and predictably, a communist government is established. This communist Finland might be merged with the existing Finno-Karelian SSR. So, Finland, or the Finnish SSR, would also incorporate Karelia, and upon the break-up of the Soviet Union a new independant Finland will emerge which is significantly larger than the exisiting Finland in OTL.
 
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