AH CHALLENGE: Jews in...SPAAAAACE!

With apologies to Mel Brooks, I present the following challenge.

With any POD after the foundation of the State of Israel in 1948, create a plausible scenario...a timeline would be even more fun...in which the State of Israel develops a successful independent manned space program, including a moon landing sometime before the year 2000.
 
With your limits on a POD that's going to be kinda hard given that Israel does have it's own independent space program (albeit not one that's manned) in OTL.

You'd have to substantially change the geo-political situation in the Middle East in order to make Israel secure enough to invest the requisite resources into a manned space program.
 
very difficult, but not impossibly

Israel can start MRBM ICBM program
that neede testing and camouflaged that as civilian space program
like launch israel first satellite (later Spysat)

OTL Shavit (Hebrew: "comet") rocket http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shavit
but Israel had launch it to the west, over the Mediterranean Sea,
in order to avoid flying over those hostile territories to its east.
alternative the rocket can be launch from a Ship
far out in the Mediterranean Sea into the east.

Hardware ?
just like there Nuclear bomb program
a littel help by France with Diamant B or even Ariane rocket ?

for Israel Manned lunar landing
we dont need a big expensive Apollo like program ?
there proposal with minimal effort
Like Lunar Gemini LOR http://www.astronautix.com/craft/gemnilor.htm
 
What we would need for a good POD is Israeli cooperation with the United States over its space program, or at least some desire to compete with the USA and the USSR. Israel had choosen to purchase the Jericho from France, but it would be better that Israel in the late 1960's purchased a form of the Titan, later renaming it the Shavit. Any equipment that is developed for such a program would likely be reminiscent of the American space program (it is likely that they would receive aid in such an endeavour from the United States), and the program would begin by the middle of the 70's.

The roadlock then becomes funding. Today, the Israeli budget is a million dollars for its space program, and GDP is around two hundred billion. Combined with the cost of their military, they would not be able to pay for as ambitious a program as Apollo, which in today's currency cost one hundred seventy billion dollars. Therefore, the program must be drawn out over a decades, similar to how the Chinese are doing it now (though they clearly could be doing MUCH more if they properly funded their program).

So we have the first one-man and two-man missions in the 1970's, and then three-man missions throughout the first half of the 1980's; the latter is mainly to test equipment for the planned lunar landings. Sometime between 1987-1989, the first lunar landing takes place, and the Star of David is planted upon the moon. However, whether they would be second is up to debate. If they seriously decided to make an attempt, the Soviet Union might try and beat them to the moon, and likely would (they already had developed much of the equipment in the past decade, and it would only need to be modernized).

Some other interesting developments would probably be a serious effort by Iraq and other Arab nations to develop a space program (and possibly plant the crescent moon upon its surface) and an early begining to the Chinese Space Program (which had failed to jump off in the 1970's and again in the 1980's).
 
The roadlock then becomes funding. Today, the Israeli budget is a million dollars for its space program, and GDP is around two hundred billion. Combined with the cost of their military, they would not be able to pay for as ambitious a program as Apollo, which in today's currency cost one hundred seventy billion dollars. Therefore, the program must be drawn out over a decades, similar to how the Chinese are doing it now (though they clearly could be doing MUCH more if they properly funded their program).

So we have the first one-man and two-man missions in the 1970's, and then three-man missions throughout the first half of the 1980's; the latter is mainly to test equipment for the planned lunar landings. Sometime between 1987-1989, the first lunar landing takes place, and the Star of David is planted upon the moon. However, whether they would be second is up to debate. If they seriously decided to make an attempt, the Soviet Union might try and beat them to the moon, and likely would (they already had developed much of the equipment in the past decade, and it would only need to be modernized).

Some other interesting developments would probably be a serious effort by Iraq and other Arab nations to develop a space program (and possibly plant the crescent moon upon its surface) and an early begining to the Chinese Space Program (which had failed to jump off in the 1970's and again in the 1980's).

yep budget is bigges problem in this TL
so get the ICBM hardware from France, USA or GB make sence (they pay already R&D)
but the most importantly Israel get Oxygene/Hydrogene engine technolgy
a lunar mission can be flown with 2 man capsule, rendevous with lander in lunarorbit
the crew put capsule in hibernation and use lander to get on Moon and back
reactivated capsule and return to Earth

Arab nations to develop a space program ?
there was a arab nation almost got one in 1980s: Libya !
1979 German Rocket Company OTRAG move there business to Lybia
then In 1983 the Libyan Government unlawfully confiscated all of OTRAG's
rocket manufacturing and test equipment in the country.
and try to use unsuccessful the lowcost tech as military rocket
more on this low-cost satellite launcher using clusters of mass-produced pressure-fed liquid propellant modules.
http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/otrag.htm
but WI Lybia used it as planned ?

to Iraq space program
they used self build Scud in clusters called Tamouz
http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/tamouz.htm
 
What we would need for a good POD is Israeli cooperation with the United States over its space program, or at least some desire to compete with the USA and the USSR. Israel had choosen to purchase the Jericho from France, but it would be better that Israel in the late 1960's purchased a form of the Titan, later renaming it the Shavit. Any equipment that is developed for such a program would likely be reminiscent of the American space program (it is likely that they would receive aid in such an endeavour from the United States), and the program would begin by the middle of the 70's.

The difficulty is that the Titan has only one purpose: Hitting enemy targets with giant strategic bombs. While the US, for good or ill, has basically turned a blind eye to the Israeli nuclear program IOTL, they sure as hell aren't going to sell some of the most powerful ICBMs in the inventories to them.
 
the only way Israel needs the Titan ICBM if they got a realy far range enermy (USSR ???)
there need IRBM MRBM SRBM to hit there Arab enermy

with clustering the Rockets like Redstone and Jupiter IRBM to Staturn I
you get from missile a big launch rocket for space program

so for absolut minimum effort Lunar Mission
you need rocket in size of Saturn IB with third stage Centaur.
a space capsule in size of Gemini spacecraft and Lunarlander with same mass.
2 launchs, one brings the lander in lunar orbit second the capsule
if they stay longer on Moon a third launch drop a shelter on landing site.

in 1996 NASA Johnson Space Center presendet "Human Lunar Return" Study
also absolut minimum effort Lunar Mission using 3 Proton rocket and 2 Shuttle launchs
for only US$2.5 billion.
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/humeturn.htm
 
The difficulty is that the Titan has only one purpose: Hitting enemy targets with giant strategic bombs. While the US, for good or ill, has basically turned a blind eye to the Israeli nuclear program IOTL, they sure as hell aren't going to sell some of the most powerful ICBMs in the inventories to them.

Yes, but the Titan was used for the Gemini Program. You would need a rocket with at least that kind of lift capability to make a manned space program viable. Maybe Israel agrees to allow the UN Security Council to keep tabs upon its "civilian" rockets? I don't know.
 
Have to reach space by themselves alone?, because if not you can keep their close relations with the French ( you have to butterfly Yom Kippur war and the oil crisis for that probably ) and this lets them join the ESA ( even create the ESA before 75, maybe a worse space race between two blocks made the Europeans more likely to want their piece of space cake ) and keep them influential enough to have a later launch program of their own, with the things they learn on ESA ...

EDIT: Well, maybe a French-Israeli space program that slows the creation of ESA instead ... thats another way
 
Have to reach space by themselves alone?, because if not you can keep their close relations with the French ( you have to butterfly Yom Kippur war and the oil crisis for that probably ) and this lets them join the ESA ( even create the ESA before 75, maybe a worse space race between two blocks made the Europeans more likely to want their piece of space cake ) and keep them influential enough to have a later launch program of their own, with the things they learn on ESA ...

EDIT: Well, maybe a French-Israeli space program that slows the creation of ESA instead ... thats another way

I like this train of thought...
 
Give Iran the bomb and you get a nonnegligible likelihood of a bunch of Jews reaching low earth orbit. Ofc the Iranians would get there at about the same time, but the OP didn't say that the Jews had to be the only ones :p
 
I like this train of thought...
Except for the fact that the ESA has largely got nothing done, and the French have their own program with the same budget with similar results, I can see a few fruits from this direction. Again however, the problem is that the Europeans themselves have not developed a vehicle capable of manned spaceflight, and the urging of the Israelis will not likely change that direction unless the provide a substantial piece of the budget. And as was said before, we would need numerous butterflies to even allow Israel to be integrated into the European program.

However, the point of discussion should not really be where do they get the tech, but if they could even be able to have the tech. I had mentioned the possibility of using a modified version of the Titan rocket for the manned program; the problem is that rockets with similar lift capabilites can also be used for offensive (nuclear) purposes. Since the lift of a Titan rocket I would believe to be the minimum for a manned program of any substantial worth, would they be allowed to possess such rocketry?
 
Except for the fact that the ESA has largely got nothing done, and the French have their own program with the same budget with similar results, I can see a few fruits from this direction. Again however, the problem is that the Europeans themselves have not developed a vehicle capable of manned spaceflight, and the urging of the Israelis will not likely change that direction unless the provide a substantial piece of the budget. And as was said before, we would need numerous butterflies to even allow Israel to be integrated into the European program.

However, the point of discussion should not really be where do they get the tech, but if they could even be able to have the tech. I had mentioned the possibility of using a modified version of the Titan rocket for the manned program; the problem is that rockets with similar lift capabilites can also be used for offensive (nuclear) purposes. Since the lift of a Titan rocket I would believe to be the minimum for a manned program of any substantial worth, would they be allowed to possess such rocketry?

Both Arianne III and IV were theoretically capable of manned capsule orbital insertion ( the IV was specifically designed for ), with the end of the Star Wars ( the real not the first Trilogy :p ) they just reduced "lightly" their interest ( and money put into ) the space adventure.

With an Israeli intervention butterflies are so great that who knows ( just a less bumpy IV design & development could mean they have enough money to build the manned vehicle ... )
 
Except for the fact that the ESA has largely got nothing done, and the French have their own program with the same budget with similar results, I can see a few fruits from this direction. Again however, the problem is that the Europeans themselves have not developed a vehicle capable of manned spaceflight, and the urging of the Israelis will not likely change that direction unless the provide a substantial piece of the budget. And as was said before, we would need numerous butterflies to even allow Israel to be integrated into the European program.

That's true a ESA Membership brings Israel
only hardware how-know, NOT a manned spacecraft
alone on 4 occasion ESA decided not to have a manned spacecraft in last 30 years

cost on manned space program:
Gemini-Programm
2 man spacecraft R&D, build, launchs 12 mission
total cost in 1988 u.s. dollar ca 1 billion spent over 6 years.
Apollo-Programm
3 man CSM + 2 man LM, Saturn rockets R&D, build, launchs mission
total cost in 1988 u.s. dollar ca 120 billion spent over 12 years.

by the way, Israel got not suffice money for a full scale Apollo program...
 
That's true a ESA Membership brings Israel
only hardware how-know, NOT a manned spacecraft
alone on 4 occasion ESA decided not to have a manned spacecraft in last 30 years

cost on manned space program:
Gemini-Programm
2 man spacecraft R&D, build, launchs 12 mission
total cost in 1988 u.s. dollar ca 1 billion spent over 6 years.
Apollo-Programm
3 man CSM + 2 man LM, Saturn rockets R&D, build, launchs mission
total cost in 1988 u.s. dollar ca 120 billion spent over 12 years.

by the way, Israel got not suffice money for a full scale Apollo program...

We can assume that they would then follow the path of a Lunar Gemini rather than copy the Apollo Program, though it would still be costly. Possibly four billion dollars every year for the manned program alone.
 
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