AH Challenge: Italy and France Exchange Places by Early Modern Era

With a POD after 1000, have the situation of France and Italy by the end of the 17th century be swapped. Italy is a united (albeit with significant regional differences), absolute Catholic monarchy, with a dominant role in Europe, and an active foreign policy when it comes to colonization. France is a divided collection of states, foreign puppets, and outright dominions of foreign countries.

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Extra points if it involves the Hautevilles...:D
 
Kind of easy. Have a much more succesful Norman expansion in Italy, eventually vassalising and annexing the rest of Italy. The Normans occaisonally invade France and carve their own little statelets there, setting up monarchs on the statelet's thrones to maintain power. Nearby countries, such as spanish states and larger German states, do the same thing in order to maintain balance.
 
Kind of easy. Have a much more succesful Norman expansion in Italy, eventually vassalising and annexing the rest of Italy. The Normans occaisonally invade France and carve their own little statelets there, setting up monarchs on the statelet's thrones to maintain power. Nearby countries, such as spanish states and larger German states, do the same thing in order to maintain balance.

Ya that makes sense, cause the Norman Kings would have been able to use their vast resource base to not only force the Pope to surrender, but also subdue the cities of the Lombard League. Hell, why didn't the Norman Kings think of that?

Oh, wait, I know, because the Lombard League and the Pope were strong enough to keep Italy from being conquered, but not strong enough to actually unite Italy by themselves.

The German Emperors, with access to really vast resources, were unable to subdue Italy. In fact the Emperor Frederick III, with the resources of both Germany AND the Norman Kingdom of Sicily, was unable to subdue Italy.

So how is the Norman Kingdom of Sicily going to subdue the Pope and the Lombard League cities? Well you could get rid of the Pope by having him go to France, but that would mean that France was actually strong enough to have the Pope go to France, which would negate actually completing the challenge so, the Pope is left in Italy. Damn. Try again.

I didn't say that the Norman Kingdom of Sicily couldn't do it though, just that they couldn't do it with OTL resources. It just so happen that in 1174 William II, the King of Sicily landed 80,000 men outside Alexandria in an attempt to conquer Egypt. It was soon clear that it wasn't going to work out, so the men got back in their ships and sailed away.

Have the Normans take Egypt in 1174. It will need some other butterflies having to do with the Crusader States, but lets ignore that for now. The Normans takes Egypt. So what now? Well it just so happens that William II was allied to the Lombard League because he didn't want them to fall to the German Emperor (he didn't want the Holy Roman Emperor for a neighbor, who'da thunk?). With his control of Egypt, he suddenly is in possession of some of the most lucrative trade routes in the Med. And he knows it. So he charges some heavy fees to traverse his land and trade with the East. He even manages to seize Aden, so that he commands both ends of the Red Sea.

William II in this TL, cause I love him, happens to have a son, pretty cool huh? So this son, Roger III, he doesn't really like the Emperors either. And at this point, with all the wealth that taxing Italian merchants and Egyptian peasants brings him, he's ready to do some serious fighting.

It just so happens that whomever is the German Emperor is thinking that fighting in Italy certainly sounds fun, so he does that. And since feuding with the Pope sounds good, he does that too. So Roger decides to go to war against this Pope-fueding, Italy invading Emperor. He rescues the Pope, and saves northern Italy. Then he has the Pope crown HIM the Holy Roman Emperor. Well, his writ doesn't run north of the Alps, but who cares for anything north of the Alps anyway? He offers the Italian merchant cities free passage through Egypt and a full recognition of their rights, even the creation of an Imperial Council where communes are represented the same as great lords (of which there are shockingly few in Italy), if they are willing to pay regular taxes and recognize him as the Emperor. They agree, and so is born the "Italian Empire."

The Italian Empire, with its coffers being filled from the Eastern Trade, get involved in wars in France. They do this because they don't like the idea of French kings being powerful. Strangely enough, nobles in southern France feel the same way. The Italian Empire, being Italian, and being that it has a monopoly over Eastern Trade (a monopoly that is not only lucrative, but pretty good for the rest of Europe. You see, it cost a lot less to go from Venice to Alexandria, and spend a few days going to Port Said, then sailing to India, then it does to go all the way around Africa to get to India. So monopolistic and low-cost, its like the Wal-mart solution to maintaining Italian trade dominance. This in turn will encourage people to support the idea that the earth is actually not as far around as Ptomely though, that senile old Greek, if only you would sail due West, you would reach India or China, or whatever Eastern place those Italians are able to so cheaply get to, ps that was Columbus' argument in a nutshell)

The English end up biting off a large chunk of France, maybe even become the King of France, but they will never have the geography or manpower to rule from England and really project much into France. The Somme River could end up the line between "English" France and the Holy Roman Empire (or whatever Germany is called). In the south the local lords continue to rule, maybe under the Italians, maybe under the Aragonese, probably on their own. Perhaps one gets strong enough to claim the old title of the "King of Burgundy." Anyway, there is no France in Provence. England will have some kind of civil wars and when it does, its French territory breaks away, Aquitaine and Normandy, and Brittany (if the English got it). Eventually, perhaps the bonds of language will be able to be used by some alt-nationalists, but I've so messed up history, who knows.

I think i beat the challenge.
 
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