AH Challenge: independent Yiddishland

Hendryk

Banned
How about a Jewish state being established somewhere in Greece?
Around Thessaloniki, possibly. But most Greek Jews are Sephardic, and what I'm after is a Yiddish-speaking country.

Perhaps I should now narrow down the challenge to: Come up with an independent Jewish Crimea, though people are free to speculate further on other locations if they think it would work better. Meanwhile, could anyone come up with a map of Crimea with the place names in Yiddish?
 

Susano

Banned
I think Crimea is a bad idea. Its too good a spot, you see. Good land, strategic position - all oour ideas so far are based about a state (be that Poland or Germany) establishing the Yiddish state as a vasall state. But if they have the power to do so, they might simply take the Crimea for themselves.
 

Hendryk

Banned
I think Crimea is a bad idea. Its too good a spot, you see.
Indeed, Crimea is a good spot for a small country: a neat peninsula, with a pleasant climate (not for nothing is there a sea resort at Yalta), mostly arable land, and easily defensible. I agree that it wouldn't be on top of the list for Gentiles to give to Jews in normal circumstances; they'd sooner grant the Pripet or, as Stalin did, a remote spot in Siberia. Fortunately for this challenge, European history between 1914 and 1935 had no shortage of abnormal circumstances.

One way would be for large numbers of Russian Jews to evacuate to Crimea during the revolution in 1917 and end up in charge of the place as the rest of the country devolves into warlordism. Western powers would be content enough to have at least one piece of Russia that's stable enough to do business with, and accept the fait accompli to focus on more pressing matters.
 

general_tiu

Banned
Is Crimea quite ridiculous? Parts of Poland and Belarus are more plausible to settle. Crimea, I think, is too far for Askenazis to settle. Besides, mind the Crimean Tatars. It would make them better anti-Semites.
 
Perhaps Russia comes apart worse than OTL and this thing breaks loose too?

Seriously, the concentrations were not there beyond the town level. The Warlordism scenario is the best bet, and even that is not likely.

HTG
 

Datner

Banned
so the Poles might well think that Polonised Ashkenazi Jews are more trustworthy to have on the border than Ukrainians or Belarusians who might prefer the USSR (or independence) to rule from Warsaw.
Poles prefered Ukrainians and Belarusians over Jews.
In WW1 Jewish organisations supported German Empire and Austro-Hungary against Russia because of higher freedom they received in those states. At the same time they rather were unfavourable to Polish state.

As to Jewish state in Central Europe-it was proposed in WW1 to German Ober-Ost command by some Jewish leaders from Germany. Its territories would be include parts of Congress Poland, Western Ukraine, Belarus and Lithuania where Jews had significant presence-up to 30-40% of population.
 

Datner

Banned
Do you have sources for that? Which German-Jewish leaders?

Germany, Turkey and Zionism 1897-1918 Isaiah Friedman.

The leader was named Max Boddenheimer. He wanted to create a state jointly run by Germans and Jews within the proposed Mitteleuropa plan that would keep control over Polish and Ukrainian population.
 
I like the idea of a Hong Kong style enclave in Crimea. Its OTL strategic position and geopolitical value, however, all up in the Black Sea with the Russian bear next door, is much weaker than Hong Kong, Gibraltar or Cyprus. To make it work we need a stronger British Empire, a weaker Russia or both. Then perhaps an alt-Crimean War could succeed in detaching Crimea as a British puppet, and then in the late 1800s the Brits try to bolster it with friendly Jews.

Hmmm... how about a (more) successful Napoleonic invasion? Russia is devastated and broken up into numerous polities (including a powerful, surviving Poland, perhaps?) that still struggle for supremacy decades after the invasion. Napoleon would still be defeated eventually, but Russia would stand much weaker in the aftermath. This could turn the country into a Chinese-style imperialist playground.
 

Hendryk

Banned
Because I like the idea of a Jewish Crimea, I'd like to see if anyone can come up with a map of the place with the names in Yiddish.
 

Thande

Donor
Because I like the idea of a Jewish Crimea, I'd like to see if anyone can come up with a map of the place with the names in Yiddish.
Yes, I would also be interested in this.

Purely for research purposes. Yes.

And not because that's what I've got planned for LTTW. :eek:
 
Yes, I would also be interested in this.

Purely for research purposes. Yes.

And not because that's what I've got planned for LTTW. :eek:

*puts hand on Thande's soldier*

Thande, as your mapmaker, you can trust me with any sort of LTTW-related info. ;)
 
Actually "Jewish Crimea" idea had been tossed around IOTL after WWII. Stalin deported Crimean Tartars (mostly farmers) and territory needed rural population. Cities and towns had been hevily depopulated by WWII. Some people in Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee tested the water about Jewish Autonomous area in Crimea.

Crimea has one almost critical drawback, once you start to think about independent state here. It does not have enough fresh water to support modern agriculture and big urban settlements. IOTL Ukraine supplies bulk of water here through North Crimean canal.
 
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