Here is my Challenge.... With a POD of After 1900 find a way for the Quing to retain power in China so that they do not get overthrown.
Ignoring the misspelling, this would be very, very tough. Cixi is controlling things, and has been for decades.Here is my Challenge.... With a POD of After 1900 find a way for the Quing to retain power in China so that they do not get overthrown.
Paging Hendryk... but you'd definitely need to have Cixi kick the can somehow. Was there any Stolypin analogue who could become a PM without the title? IIRC there was a plan to create provincial legislatures in 1908, followed by a national parliament in 1911.
So Wif in 1900 tired of Cixi rule a Top general decides to kill her and sieze the throne, so he kills Cixi and siezes the throne..... Is this possible, the alternative would be that the peaseants rise up once again overthrowing Cixi and then some warlord siezes the Chinese throne.... Would either of these pods work?
What about having Cixi die in the aftermath of the Boxer Rebellion? The Iron Hat conservative faction then tries to overthrow the Guangxu emperor but fails. This gives the Guangxu emperor what amounts to effectively a free hand to re-institute the reforms of 1898.
You know that makes perfect sense!!! Anyone interested in such a tl![]()
Still wouldn't be post -1900, which is the biggest single problem with the OP.IIRC, in 1898 Liang Qichao approached Yuan Shikai with an appeal to throw the weight of the Beiyang Army behind Kang Youwei's reforms and stop Cixi's planned coup. What if Yuan didnt turn him down?
Then, by definition, it's not Qing, so it doesn't meet the challenge.So Wif in 1900 tired of Cixi rule a Top general decides to kill her and sieze the throne, so he kills Cixi and siezes the throne..... Is this possible, the alternative would be that the peaseants rise up once again overthrowing Cixi and then some warlord siezes the Chinese throne.... Would either of these pods work?
BTW, if you want to discuss Chinese dynasties, it helps to get the spelling right.Here is my Challenge.... With a POD of After 1900 find a way for the Quing to retain power in China so that they do not get overthrown.
Still wouldn't be post -1900, which is the biggest single problem with the OP.
I'm not so sure that a 1900 POD is all too late for a Qing resurgence. Let's face it, even in OTL, in it's last years the Qing Dynasty experienced somewhat of a resurgence. The army was reorganized, frontiers established/expanded, industrialization pursued etc. However conservative elements IMO derailed the entire process by stalling efforts to create a parliament etc. thereby playing right into the hands of burgeoning anti-Qing revolutionaries.
In TTL said conservative factions of the Qing court would be deeply undercut by the recent failure of the Boxer rebellion and a subsequent attempt to overthrow the Guangxu Emperor. This would leave the moderates/liberals fully in charge and capable of listening to people such as Kang Youwei (perhaps even bringing him into the government) and others who promoted not the overthrow of the Qing but it's reform.
By allowing for an even greater adoption of reforms (and longer) the Qing can begin to rebuild and perhaps put themselves in a position to take advantage of the chaos caused by WWI/The Russian Civil War. Let's all remember that Hendryk's "Superpower Empire" TL starts with a later POD and isn't regarded as irrational by a long shot.
(This also isn't to say that the Qing Dynasty will last forever, indeed Japanese/Russian ambitions could very well problematic in the future. But certainly a POD in 1900 with a successful reform/liberalization/centralization process would give the dynasty at least another decade or two than OTL)
What about having Cixi die in the aftermath of the Boxer Rebellion? The Iron Hat conservative faction then tries to overthrow the Guangxu emperor but fails. This gives the Guangxu emperor what amounts to effectively a free hand to re-institute the reforms of 1898.
BTW, if you want to discuss Chinese dynasties, it helps to get the spelling right.
I see, both here and in other threads, that you're spelling 'Qing' with a 'u'. 'Q' is pronounced something like the English 'ch', so that 'u' looks.... really weird.
FYI.
I'm not so sure that a 1900 POD is all too late for a Qing resurgence. Let's face it, even in OTL, in it's last years the Qing Dynasty experienced somewhat of a resurgence. The army was reorganized, frontiers established/expanded, industrialization pursued etc. However conservative elements IMO derailed the entire process by stalling efforts to create a parliament etc. thereby playing right into the hands of burgeoning anti-Qing revolutionaries.
In TTL said conservative factions of the Qing court would be deeply undercut by the recent failure of the Boxer rebellion and a subsequent attempt to overthrow the Guangxu Emperor. This would leave the moderates/liberals fully in charge and capable of listening to people such as Kang Youwei (perhaps even bringing him into the government) and others who promoted not the overthrow of the Qing but it's reform.
By allowing for an even greater adoption of reforms (and longer) the Qing can begin to rebuild and perhaps put themselves in a position to take advantage of the chaos caused by WWI/The Russian Civil War. Let's all remember that Hendryk's "Superpower Empire" TL starts with a later POD and isn't regarded as irrational by a long shot.
(This also isn't to say that the Qing Dynasty will last forever, indeed Japanese/Russian ambitions could very well problematic in the future. But certainly a POD in 1900 with a successful reform/liberalization/centralization process would give the dynasty at least another decade or two than OTL)
Never read his TL, truthfully. I'll defer to someone else who has more expertise; as my comment (I hope) implied, mine is limited when it comes to late-Qing Chinese history. I've kinda been focusing on the language, which eats up considerable time.![]()