AH challenge, Have Lenin embrace Marx Socialism excactly as Marx wrote down.

As the tin says create A socialist Russia that adheres strictly to Marxist socialisim and not that spinoff Russian Communism..... Is it possible?
 

Deleted member 1487

The reason for "Russian Communism" had to do with Russia NOT being industrialized enough for Marx's version of communism. There were too many peasant farmers and not enough workers for Marx's interpretation to work. It had to be adapted because Russia's situation did not match the Marx's blueprint.
 
The reason for "Russian Communism" had to do with Russia NOT being industrialized enough for Marx's version of communism. There were too many peasant farmers and not enough workers for Marx's interpretation to work. It had to be adapted because Russia's situation did not match the Marx's blueprint.


Oh so then was there really no way, think about it if China, Russia promoted Marxist socialism, we'd have completly differen countries, right, I mean think about Marxist ideology in Warsaw, although I'm a Socialist-Democrat I beleive that with Marxs teachings we could have a less opressed and less deaths than the millions of people who died, no many millions of people died and two countries full of Opression to a much nicer east, don't you agree..
 
Marx is going to be interpreted in different ways for every single nation out there. It would be impossible for "Orthodox" Marxism to be in place mainly because that was never the point of Marxism.

The problems that occurred in the Soviet Union and PRC are not the result of "faulty Marxist interpretation", rather they were recurring conditions that happened in those countries respectively.

You also have the problem of what Marxism actually means when translated to reality. Some take it as socialism, while others are Communist. There are even conservative Marxists believing in neither. It's socio-economic theory and philosophy, not ideology.
 

archaeogeek

Banned
Make the relationship between Marx and Engels peter out, thus freeing future generations of communists from his centralist, elitist, even borderline imperialist, ideas... Hopefully at least this leads to more influences from, say, Proudhon, or later Gramsci not having to wade through Engels' bullshit.

As for Russia or China specifically, what others said, a lot of the problems of the systems there were pretty much endemic under the monarchy, too.
 
Make the relationship between Marx and Engels peter out, thus freeing future generations of communists from his centralist, elitist, even borderline imperialist, ideas... Hopefully at least this leads to more influences from, say, Proudhon, or later Gramsci not having to wade through Engels' bullshit.
Eh, I'm mixed on that. Compared to the Lasalleans who appropriated Marx to support their orthodoxy, Engels was down right progressive and revolutionary. His spats with the Lasalleans in the German SPD are the only reason why half of Marx's more libertarian works were even published, especially The Civil War in France and Critique of the Gotha Programme.

Engels is definitely the lesser evil, IMHO. What you need is some other luminary in the early 20th century to become the central figure of the Marxist left other than Eduard Bernstein or Karl Kautsky
 
If that's the case then is it possible for there to excist a Marxist Grmany, after all Marx, Engles, etc were all born in Germany so what if we get a socialist Germany, it is a very industrialized country with a large workforce, this butterflies away facism, also getting rid of Lennin, so no communist uprising in Russia leading to no Stalin, Hitler will not come to power butterflieng away the Nazis, is such a scenario possible....
 

Deleted member 1487

If that's the case then is it possible for there to excist a Marxist Grmany, after all Marx, Engles, etc were all born in Germany so what if we get a socialist Germany, it is a very industrialized country with a large workforce, this butterflies away facism, also getting rid of Lennin, so no communist uprising in Russia leading to no Stalin, Hitler will not come to power butterflieng away the Nazis, is such a scenario possible....

It was tried after WW1, but there was not enough support for the revolution so it fell apart under Frei Korps attacks. Get great disaffection in Germany before the war and it could maybe happen. Honestly Germany had a bit too much equity in wealth distribution for it to go communist.
 

Susano

Banned
Eh, I'm mixed on that. Compared to the Lasalleans who appropriated Marx to support their orthodoxy, Engels was down right progressive and revolutionary. His spats with the Lasalleans in the German SPD are the only reason why half of Marx's more libertarian works were even published, especially The Civil War in France and Critique of the Gotha Programme.

Engels is definitely the lesser evil, IMHO. What you need is some other luminary in the early 20th century to become the central figure of the Marxist left other than Eduard Bernstein or Karl Kautsky
Lasallean Orthodoxy? Lasalle and the ADAV were the pragmatic, moderate ones. And it were especially the Lasallean influences in the united SPD which Marx criticisized.

Marx is going to be interpreted in different ways for every single nation out there. It would be impossible for "Orthodox" Marxism to be in place mainly because that was never the point of Marxism.

The problems that occurred in the Soviet Union and PRC are not the result of "faulty Marxist interpretation", rather they were recurring conditions that happened in those countries respectively.

You also have the problem of what Marxism actually means when translated to reality. Some take it as socialism, while others are Communist. There are even conservative Marxists believing in neither. It's socio-economic theory and philosophy, not ideology.

To a degree it will always have to be intepreted. It is too massive a work for intepretation not being necessary. However, the revolutionary elite party was clearly an innovation by Lenin, not an intepretation, an innovation every actually communist country of the world took over. I dont say "pure" Marxism would work, in whatever form, but Marxism-Leninism did make things worse in the USSR and the PRC, since it introduced and legitimated the dictatorical element.
 
Top