AH challenge have American Indians mass trade with one another to create Iron wepons

After reading the book guns germs and Steel I decided that what I f the natives started to trade with each other and soon a spread of ideas went around both Americas then we could have an advanced america is it possible.....
 
I've thought so too, the list of things the 3 big societies had is reasonable; Llama pack animals, Mayan writing, Aztec wheeled toys, bronze tools/weapons for starters. But when it has been raised here most people put it in the too-hard basket.
 
Not as easy as it sounds. There is evidence of trade networks via vessels between Mesoamerica and the Incas though it wasn't that extensive.
 
There would have to be an extensive maritime trade amongst the more settled tribes. Most of the big mariners were in the North Pacific and while they had a cool culture, they were just settled hunter gatherers. If the Mississippi proto-cities, Meso-Americans or one of the Andean civilizations had taken to the waves in any number then trade could have evolved.
With the interchange of food and technology its conceivable they could have developed iron or at least a lot of bronze before the Europeans arrived.
 
There would have to be an extensive maritime trade amongst the more settled tribes. Most of the big mariners were in the North Pacific and while they had a cool culture, they were just settled hunter gatherers. If the Mississippi proto-cities, Meso-Americans or one of the Andean civilizations had taken to the waves in any number then trade could have evolved.
With the interchange of food and technology its conceivable they could have developed iron or at least a lot of bronze before the Europeans arrived.

Would this help if there was an earlier Polynesian discovery of South America and settlement along the coast?
 
Would this help if there was an earlier Polynesian discovery of South America and settlement along the coast?

Could depending on where they land and how permanent it is. Hitting the Mayan's in Central America is the best bet. The Polynesians seem to have left some technology in California such as boat weaving technology, but it was with a small tribe not a city state.
 
Trade depends on demand, so would you have to increase the human population of the Americas for this to even be plausable? The Inca seemed to do fine as did various mesoamerican states, but they had population. The Inca were a bronze age society, and the only reason they didn't work iron was that there was no easily accessable iron in their Empire.
 
The Inca were a bronze age society, and the only reason they didn't work iron was that there was no easily accessable iron in their Empire.

Well, given that bronze was only discovered in the Americas about 1250 AD, and the Inca Empire fell less than three centuries later, there really wasn't time for them to develop the smelting tech they would have needed to work iron. In the Old World...where conditions for invention were much more favorable...the leap from bronze to iron took over 1,000 years (actually closer to 1,500). To assume it could, or would, be accomplished in less than 300 years by the Incas is bordering on ASB territory.
 

archaeogeek

Banned
Well, given that bronze was only discovered in the Americas about 1250 AD, and the Inca Empire fell less than three centuries later, there really wasn't time for them to develop the smelting tech they would have needed to work iron. In the Old World...where conditions for invention were much more favorable...the leap from bronze to iron took over 1,000 years (actually closer to 1,500). To assume it could, or would, be accomplished in less than 300 years by the Incas is bordering on ASB territory.

It depends on ressource access: the earliest iron age is in a different region than the earliest bronze age and it took something like a thousand years before the part of Anatolia where the first ironworking appears to have Bronze. It also took something like 7 centuries between arrival of Bronze in the region and beginnings of iron working.
 
It depends on ressource access: the earliest iron age is in a different region than the earliest bronze age and it took something like a thousand years before the part of Anatolia where the first ironworking appears to have Bronze. It also took something like 7 centuries between arrival of Bronze in the region and beginnings of iron working.

Even if that's true, it doesn't argue in favor of the Incas getting iron in less than 300 years. Indeed, since resource access is your stated limiter, this rather reinforces my point.
 
All I'm wondering is that will this allow Native Americans to advance to European level pre gunpowder by the time Europeans arrive so that the natives might stand a chance at surviving.....
 
All I'm wondering is that will this allow Native Americans to advance to European level pre gunpowder by the time Europeans arrive so that the natives might stand a chance at surviving.....

It would have to happen very early, and be very widespread.
If the Olmecs and maybe the early Mayan's had decided to colonize the Caribbean and spread their technology and culture throughout both sides of the Gulf there's a chance.
But waiting for the Polynesians, or having the Inca or Aztecs do it simply doesn't give the America's enough time.
 
Last edited:
If you want a kind of silk road between the Andes and Mesoamerica, you have to deal with that uninhabitable stretch of land connecting the two. I would suggest plopping down a civilization that completely deforests the area, allowing travel to be easier between the two regions.

Maybe a tribe settles and develops a cult that involves cutting down a hell of a lot of trees.
 
But none of that solves the problem of Native American vulnerability to European diseases. As much as I dislike the book, the title is "Guns, GERMS and Steel." As soon as the first smallpox and measles epidemics hit, it's back to square one for a lot of native cultures.
 
But none of that solves the problem of Native American vulnerability to European diseases. As much as I dislike the book, the title is "Guns, GERMS and Steel." As soon as the first smallpox and measles epidemics hit, it's back to square one for a lot of native cultures.

I wont say back to square one. If the Aztecs had defeated Cortez for example (and very nearly did), the epidemic would have weakened them, but not wiped out their civilization. The conquest of the Aztecs would have taken longer as they would not be fighting the Spanish at the moment when they were at the lowest point.

None the less, iron weapons or no, this cannot stop the eventual conquest of the Americas. The Russians conquered Siberia dispite the Siberians having iron weapons and other old world technologies. An iron age America however would have a more lasting legacy than a stone age America. At least some tribes would have adapted to the modern world and kept some of their distinctiveness alive.
 
I wont say back to square one. If the Aztecs had defeated Cortez for example (and very nearly did), the epidemic would have weakened them, but not wiped out their civilization. The conquest of the Aztecs would have taken longer as they would not be fighting the Spanish at the moment when they were at the lowest point.

None the less, iron weapons or no, this cannot stop the eventual conquest of the Americas. The Russians conquered Siberia dispite the Siberians having iron weapons and other old world technologies. An iron age America however would have a more lasting legacy than a stone age America. At least some tribes would have adapted to the modern world and kept some of their distinctiveness alive.

Yes the Russians conquered Siberia in the 17th century 100 years later, Cortez and the Spaniards still rely mainly on steel, the guns or Arquiebis were loud smoky and near useless, so had TeAztecs AdoptedSpansh guns they ould have an easier time making the wepons because they know how to make Cast Iron. which is needed for early cannons.
 
Top