AH Challenge: Greater Iberia

Alright, so here's your challenge.

Have, by the 19th century, a 'Greater Iberia' movement, similar to the Scandinavian movement and/or Unification movements.

Secondly, try to not drastically change history to a point where Europe is fundamentally different, IE keep England/UK and the
national identities of the Iberians up until the movement and the various other historic European nations.


Greater Iberia being defined as what is Portugal, Spain and France.
 

Lusitania

Donor
Much as it would pains me, the only way that could come to fruition would be as part of the republican movements following the Iberian War. Which if they happened had greatly made the populations of the Iberian Peninisula (especially Spain) think of the huge amount of human life lost to the French Invasion.

The movement as you describe would be hard to fanthom. Nationalism was in full force and I do not see any of the three main cultures (Portuguese, Spanish and French) as being happy being subjects to another culture.

The French would automatically assume that they should be the leaders of the union. Spanish and Portuguese would find it hard to accept the French being their overlords after they had defeated them earlier.
 
War of the Spanish Sucession goes worse for Britain. Spain agrees to give Austria Milan and Naples/Sicily (they also annex Bavaria rather than the Netherlands) but Phillip V does not relenquish his claim on the throne of France. Louis XV is stillborn like the rest of his brothers (or dies in Infancy) and Louis le Grande Dauphin and his son Louis die on cue during the mid 1710s. Phillip V is now the heir to the throne of France. We may see a war of French sucession, maybe not. At some point in the 18th Century there is a war between POrtugal and France-Spain, and the King of Portugal is forced to name the King of France-Spain his heir. France-Spain wins the war of Portuguese sucession (having dissembered Austria first in the POlish Sucession War, then in a war between Austria and Prussia) and we have the union. Britain has probably lost the 13 colonies and India as well. The populace are encouraged into supporting the union and a governmental movement for the Union of the Three crowns into a single state, Greater Iberia, is raised.
 

Lusitania

Donor
War of the Spanish Sucession goes worse for Britain. Spain agrees to give Austria Milan and Naples/Sicily (they also annex Bavaria rather than the Netherlands) but Phillip V does not relenquish his claim on the throne of France. Louis XV is stillborn like the rest of his brothers (or dies in Infancy) and Louis le Grande Dauphin and his son Louis die on cue during the mid 1710s. Phillip V is now the heir to the throne of France. We may see a war of French sucession, maybe not. At some point in the 18th Century there is a war between POrtugal and France-Spain, and the King of Portugal is forced to name the King of France-Spain his heir. France-Spain wins the war of Portuguese sucession (having dissembered Austria first in the POlish Sucession War, then in a war between Austria and Prussia) and we have the union. Britain has probably lost the 13 colonies and India as well. The populace are encouraged into supporting the union and a governmental movement for the Union of the Three crowns into a single state, Greater Iberia, is raised.

I thought about that but I understood the question being that similar to the Scandanavian union. So I took it from the start of the Iberian War and that Portugal, Spain and France all existed. So from there I found it hard to fanthom.
 
War of the Spanish Sucession goes worse for Britain. Spain agrees to give Austria Milan and Naples/Sicily (they also annex Bavaria rather than the Netherlands) but Phillip V does not relenquish his claim on the throne of France. Louis XV is stillborn like the rest of his brothers (or dies in Infancy) and Louis le Grande Dauphin and his son Louis die on cue during the mid 1710s. Phillip V is now the heir to the throne of France. We may see a war of French sucession, maybe not. At some point in the 18th Century there is a war between POrtugal and France-Spain, and the King of Portugal is forced to name the King of France-Spain his heir. France-Spain wins the war of Portuguese sucession (having dissembered Austria first in the POlish Sucession War, then in a war between Austria and Prussia) and we have the union. Britain has probably lost the 13 colonies and India as well. The populace are encouraged into supporting the union and a governmental movement for the Union of the Three crowns into a single state, Greater Iberia, is raised.
Well-done, Alex!
Would the French Revolution-like event be butterflied off in this TL? Now, with the Spanish and Portuguese colonies (and soldiers), the Burbons have more bayonets for rioters and more of gold for loyal subjects...
 
My knowledge of Iberian history is very very limited but wasn't Portugal when it first came into being merely a earldom of Galicia/Leon. If it remained so it would of eventually perhaps been absorbed into Castille? I mean the butterflies would be HUGE but im sure a Castille including Portugal would inherit or conquer Aragon by some means.
 
When Spain first formed there was a great deal of political momentum toward uniting the peninsula into a single kingdom. A few of the marriage proposals in the following decades directed potential heirs towards the Portuguese royal house with exactly that in mind.

Although Portugal did have a history of conflict with Castille, the government was apparently amenable to the proposition, and there was even some annoyance that the union of just two states was already being referred to as Spain. The Portuguese apparently felt that should be the name for a union of the entire peninsula.

This would mean unification earlier than you had probably intended - by the mid 1500s at the latest - but it was about the closest they came to a union that had a likelihood of real permanence.
 
Well-done, Alex!
Would the French Revolution-like event be butterflied off in this TL? Now, with the Spanish and Portuguese colonies (and soldiers), the Burbons have more bayonets for rioters and more of gold for loyal subjects...

Not sure. I'd expect an Austrian revolution as it's been heavily partitioned, but I can't really say about the French one. Certainly things are very absolutist, but I reckon the US has just been butterflied out of existence. Although with basically all the Americas under one crown the wars of indpendence will be interesting. Perhaps if a state is this big and powerful, it can't be taken down overnight. Presumably, if that is so, it would last until the mid-late 19th Century, maybe even until this version of WWI.

As for the opening of the 19th Century, maybe Europe's something like this? (Renember, Austria was pulled apart by Greater Iberia and Prussia). Lighter colour denotes de facto vassals. the monarch is probably HRE as well now. Britain's been forced to surrender Hannover too, and there's a couple of French candidates on the thrones of Poland and Hungary

GI.png
 
Top