AH Challenge: Gaelic Union

Time to turn the great knob of controversy :D.

Your challenge, should you accept it, is to create a Gaelic Union of Ireland, Wales and Scotland. It has to be able to cope with an English invasion and survive the test of time. The POD is up to you.

If you can include Cornwall or Brittany as provinces then claim a glass of red lemonade as your prize.

Gaelic Union.png
 

Thande

Donor
Big obnoxious red buzzer sound 1: Wales isn't Gaelic. (Nor are Cornwall or Brittany).

Big obnoxious red buzzer sound 2: This is entirely possible but not with exactly-the-same-as-modern borders.
 
They still wouldn't be Gaelic, because in this context it's a racial rather than linguistic term.

???why do you say that? Nobody worries about the fact that OTL Scotland was inhabited by the probably Celtic, but definitely not Gaelic, Picts. So a similarly effective takeover of OTL Wales is, while highly unlikely, surely not at the ASB level.

A POD might involve the Irish raiders that often attacked Wales (see St Patrick, for instance), actually settle instead of just raiding. I'm sure I don't know why they settled and took over Scotland, but never took over Wales.

Heck, you could even have Gaelic speaking princes ruling over (largely) British peasants, and still have the area be part of a 'Gaelic Union'.

Of course, if this approach actually worked, then Strathclyde might be part of the same Union (as per your other point about boundaries).


And, yes, I'm aware that the title was probably a mistake for 'Celtic Union', which would be far more likely.
 
I am not sure I would agree its racial. After all, the Welsh may not be Gaels, but both them and the Gaels are celtic peoples. Language and culture are already related to some degree, though the Welsh had been partly assimilated into Roman culture.

I would say an independent Gaelic State could exist and be stable in Great Britain, but union with Ireland is trickier... the Irish really only united themselves because of the English. But I suppose it is possible if Ireland was united under a strong high king in the 5th or 6th century, and if St. Augustine had not converted the Anglo-Saxons and they were converted by Irish Christians instead, it is possible that Great Britain might have ended up strongly under the influence of the Irish.. at least until the Vikings arrive on the scene.

--
Bill
 
Well, Malcolm III of Scotland's grandmother(or great-grandmother)was, in some sources, a daughter of Brian Boru. You could have him invade Ireland to claim the kingship. Later, have the heir to Scotland-Ireland marry Matilda, daughter of Henry I of England(they would probably be cousins). Then, when Henry I's son drowns in the white ship, have the heir and Matilda ascend the throne(they might still have to deal with the usurper Stephen though). Later the heir will inherit Scotland and Ireland. With all this additional manpower at their disposal, conquering Wales should be easy. I don't know if all this would butterfly away Constance of Brittany, but let's say it doesn't and the King or his heir marries Constance. Boom, you've got Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Cornwall, and Brittany under one ruler(okay, England wasn't part of the deal, this is just one scenario I thought up).
 
They still wouldn't be Gaelic, because in this context it's a racial rather than linguistic term.

I thought it was a linguistic term - interchangeable with Goidelic - for the Q-Celtic speaking areas, as opposed to the P-Celtic Welsh, who I suppose would be called Pritannic. In as far as race has any meaning, the "Celts" would be a race in total. Of course, as others have pointed out, the Celts absorbed previous populations of whose culture, language and ethnicity we are largely ignorant, so it's hard to describe them as a distinct race in any sense.
 
And as for the OP, my initial thought was a successful Edward Bruce campaign in Ireland, but that has some problems. It's hard to imagine the English letting Wales out of their grip, given the vulnerability of the Midlands to whoever holds the Welsh Marches. And it's hard to see a "Gaelic Union" having enough similarities to unify at this late date, given how Scotland and Wales had anglicised.

My preference would be for a Dark Ages POD, possibly with a Scots-Welsh army victorious against the Saxons sometime in the 6th or 7th centuries. There are a few possibilities - I'll leave the details up to someone else. Ireland could be persuaded/forced to join in later. A state of this strength could have a chance at Cornwall/Brittany as well, although the main problem would be resisting Viking attack.
 
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