AH Challenge: Franco-German alliance after 1871.

The challenge here is to make France and Germany allied to each other following the founding of the German Empire in 1871.

It doesnt have to happen immediately after the war. In fact, it doesnt even have to happen before 1900.
 
a real challenge

Can you make allies of fire and water?

An alliance between France and Germany could only be envisioned if there was a clear threat against both from another side.

England? Rather not, because it could not invade France or Germany alone, let alone both, without a continental ally. That could only be Russia, Austria being to weak, and how should Russia invade FRance?

Colonial differences between France and the UK would never lead to a rapprochement of France and Germany because of Alsace-Lorraine: The French would never accept the loss of these provinces for any colonial gain.

That leaves only one solution: Martians!:(
 
Well, it's not martians, but..

Let's say in Germany a conservative dictator comes into power - yet not a Nazi. The same happens in France. Albeit, Mussolini led a radical left regime to power in Italy, and the same now happens in Spain. Thus, France and Germany are encircled by the red menace. Could be enough to form an alliance.
 
OK, I just reread the challenge and found that OTL pretty much fulfills it. At the moment, France and Germany are both members of NATO and EU, and in recent years tended to collaborate more often than not ("Old Europe" anyone?).
 
OK, I just reread the challenge and found that OTL pretty much fulfills it. At the moment, France and Germany are both members of NATO and EU, and in recent years tended to collaborate more often than not ("Old Europe" anyone?).

*sigh*

The challenge is an alliance between France and the German Empire.

Perhaps I should have been more precise, but honestly!
 
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*sigh*

The challenge is an alliance between France and the German Empire.

Perhaps I should have been more precise, but honestly!

That leaves few options, and having a common enemy is the best bet. The British are too smart, they would never let themselves become the enemy of both the Germans and the French. Perhaps, as stated above, communists could fulfill that role. Our best bet would probably be having British Communists of some sort. They may be powerful and close enough to get the French and Germans scared into an alliance.
 
Someone goes to the bathroom earlier then normal in 1872. How does this change history? It doesn't but it does allow for the that thing which is called the EU which is a Franco-German Alliance :p

Edit: Woops, sorry didn't see the whole German EMPIRE part:p
 
When exactly is the PoD? The obvious answer is that if we're allowed to slightly change the peace treaty of the Franco-Prussian war (Wilhelm I made his proclomation at Versailles on 18 January 1871, the Treaty of Frankfurt was signed 10 May 1871) then simply have Wilhelm I side with Bismarck over the generals and don't annex Alsace-Lorraine. Combine it with Russia going communist and becoming much more expansionist plus supporting communists in other European countries earlier to be the new bête noir and it could work.
 
For a starter we'd have to change something about Alsace-Lorraine (plebiscite or whatever, at least not annexing clearly francophone areas like Metz) and Bismarck.

The former to placate french revanchism down to a level that such an alliance becomes feasible, the latter to get rid of that strange idea of politically isolating France. Once Bismarck's OTL network of Alliances starts to deteriorate, France is sure to gang up with any other power that falls out of this system.
 
The two world wars have led us to imagine that between 1871 and 1945, Germany and France were constantly at loggerheads. Not so. For most of the later 19th century they had normal relations, and British political cartoons often conjured up Franco-German coalitions against us until the blocs aligned shortly before WW1. Had something happened to avert WW1, and especially the thing that led to it from the French side (a growing feeling of strength and confidence in international relations), I don't think it's that unlikely that the French would forget Alsace. 1911 had seen changes, after all, thye just didn't have long to become concrete. The SDP managed to still loyalty among non-Germans which may have won central Schleswig for Germany, so Alsace might become a "normal" German province. If Germany was willing to make concessions in Lorraine, the Alsatian question could quietly disappear, and then there's no reason France and Germany can't ally against Britain, or Russia, or Britain and Russia. (Yes, I'm very much singing from the FabR hymnsheet here. ;))

France and Germany also got on well in the 1920s.
 

Susano

Banned
Thats taking Faeelinbotism too far :p
(sorry, I just found it funny you both render the SPD as SDP :p )

Now as for the question, I see matters a bit more bleak than you. The French were not about the violated national self-determination of the Alsatians and North Lorrainians (and even I must admit it was violated). They were all about revanchism, so making compromises and holding referenda wont change things much, unless there is a serious change of attitude in France.
 
Thats taking Faeelinbotism too far :p
(sorry, I just found it funny you both render the SPD as SDP :p )

Now as for the question, I see matters a bit more bleak than you. The French were not about the violated national self-determination of the Alsatians and North Lorrainians (and even I must admit it was violated). They were all about revanchism, so making compromises and holding referenda wont change things much, unless there is a serious change of attitude in France.

General Boulanger, maybe, but the Third Republic was helmed by cool-headed statesmen who knew how stupid it was to hold a grudge with a much more powerful neighbour. It was only once alliance originally made for security, the changing military situation, and the passing of a generation made the French change their attitudes that the war break out, and when that happened, the attitudes of the jingos became accepted and then vindicated.
 
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