AH Challenge: Fortress America under siege

Who would win in a fight in the 48 contiguous American states.


  • Total voters
    62
You really need a POD before 1900 for anyone or even everyone combined to invade the Continental United States without being crushed, unless you posit some sort of Civil War in the 30s. Remember that in 1940, the USA was the second most populous industrialized nation (after the Soviet Union) and by far the wealthiest and most industrialized. It had something like a third of the total warmaking capability in the world. With all of that devoted to home defense, every other industrialized nation combined couldn't defeat the USA in North America. Once you consider that an anglo-american alliance was pretty much guaranteed by this time, you have the two strongest navies in the world on the same side, and even some monstrous Axis-Soviet super alliance wouldn't stand a chance on the offensive.
 
Yes, but we're assuming the British are either destroyed or have joined the Axis themselves. I wonder if the Axis Navy could destroy the American Navy and then invade full force at a later date. Maybe if the Germans didn't get rid of their Jews they could've had a slightly larger military
 
The United States would probably take the hit.

Japan would invade Alaska (They had a plan too, anyone know the name?)

Nazi Germany-Japan-Spain-Italy-Soviet Union could probably defeat the United States in the late forties if they had eliminated all other allies and had a tech bonus.

Or they would just push inland until they couldn't resupply and partisan activity forced them to pull out.
 
the problem with even a Soviet/Axis super alliance going against the USA is that they really don't get the kind of boost in the one thing they need the most, and that's on the naval side of things. Since of the powers involved in this theoretical alliance, the only one with any kind of real Naval capability is Japan, and they shot their wad pretty much within 1 year of pearl harbor. In the Atlantic the situation isn't too good looking for the bad guys, even with the Soviets added to the equation and the Brits taken out of the picture, the US is going to rip the Kreigsmarine and the Soviet Navy a new one in due time. Especially without the need to provide trans-atlantic convoy defense, the USN can devote almost all of its resources toward coastal defense which will make a huge bottleneck for your super evil-axis ground troops getting to North America, especially since their ground troops are going to suffer exceptional casualties even before setting foot on american soil as they get pounded on from the air by US carrier based aircraft, and from below from US submarines. Not to mention that the USN would get all of the planned Iowa class battleships, but also the Montana's as well which would make even the most ardent German or Russian sailor quake in his boots.

More or less the Russians/Axis would need to take the USN out of the picture in order to establish any kind of sustained foothold on North America, and in order to do that they would need to successfully take out most of the East or west coast to secure one of the oceans which in turn would be made nearly impossible by the presence of that very same Navy.

This of course is before we even get to the issue of an actual land war in the Continental US, which as has been said before would be a logistical nightmare. Granted the American public would probably not throw themselves at the invaders with the suicidal abandon that the Soviets did against the Germans, but at the same time, the US doesn't need to. The logistical chokehold will slow the invading forces down so thoroughly that geurillas won't have to do much to keep them from advancing, which of course keeps german generals from fighting a quick "lighting" style war that they are comfortable with.

Finally the issue of the A-Bomb is moot anyways, the Germans were the only nation of the four mentioned even close to developing a weapon during the 40's, and there is no guarantee that they would have actually figured it out without some help form elsewhere. I have heard a number of different things regarding the bad assumptions that the Germans had regarding what it took to actually build a bomb, one being that you needed to make a nuclear reactor go critical, and the other being that they needed like a 10 foot diameter ball of uranium or plutonium to get a working bomb. Now even if they managed to build a successful bomb, they would have had to get it to the target. They could have used one that was carried by a plane, but then again I wouldn't like the chances of a German bomber getting through US AA defences, especially with the OSS decoding German radio traffic and knowing when and where to expect such an attack. Of course there is the option of using a V-2 although I don't think that any V-2 was capable of carrying an A-bomb, and even so they would have needed a secure place to launch from which means a naval platform which would be under constant threat from the USN, or a land based site, which would be under constant threat from Geurrilla sabotage, or USAAF airstrikes. Of course once again the ability of the OSS to read enigma would make securing such a launch site quite problematical.

Of course there is always the chance that such an alliance could have succeeded in conquering the US, but it is a miniscule chance and requires an ASB level of cooperation of these powers, as well as uncharacteristically intelligent level of leadership on the part of most or all of these nations.
 
Of course there is always the chance that such an alliance could have succeeded in conquering the US, but it is a miniscule chance and requires an ASB level of cooperation of these powers, as well as uncharacteristically intelligent level of leadership on the part of most or all of these nations.

I totally agree. Any reference to British naval strength being involved first off is foolish, that would have been destroyed long before they reached North American shores. After that, unless isolationism meant the US government took a See no Evil approach to planning, industrial and military buildups would occur well before any Axis troops would violate the Monroe Doctorine. Now, if the combined Nazi/Soviet scientific community could develop an early IBCM out of the V2 program with an atomic bomb, maybe the Axis would have a shot at some early gains. But they would be unable to impact the industrial and agricultrual midwest, and would be pushed back into the sea.
 
This terrifies be beyond any reason. The Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, and Fascist Italy all on the same side?

Not even Uncle Sam could win that fist fight, and Im American. Only through incredible willpower and strength could Anglo-American forces keep invasion forces off of the British Isles.

Italians in the poll is ridiculous, they got al hyped up on speeches and then their officers got them killed. The Japanese would never have the population, let alone the military strength to occupy every town.

But I believe a Russia-Germany-Japan-Italy combo could.

One more thing: Do you think Hitler thought he was playing a video game? Pushing for tech, betraying, and quitting when he couldnt win?

I doubt it. They would have to destroy the US and British navies and outproduce the US and Britain and they had no chance of doing that. If the US get's in the war early, the axis at best makes a truce. And in my opinion, Hitler did consider the whole thing a game. He would be more than willing to betray Italy if he felt he could get something out of it.
 
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