How can we get Scandinavia (Denmark, Norway, Sweden, maybe Iceland and Finland) to go fascist and pro-Nazi before the advent of WWII? How would such a change come about and what would it mean for everyone's favorite AH topic--WWII?
AH Challenge: Fascist Scandinavia
- Thread starter Hannibal.Caesar
- Start date
A bad economy and a stronger fear of communism certainly help, but imo without extremist nationalism it is still not enough. Maybe if they were involved in the First world war or a regional war in which popular xenophobia can appear or in which a country would lose territory, thus forming irredentism which ofcourse would make the entire region highly unstable.
Imo... the First world war might work... if one of the countries would enter ww1 on the CP side and lose, and then get a humiliating peace treaty as the rest did.
Imo... the First world war might work... if one of the countries would enter ww1 on the CP side and lose, and then get a humiliating peace treaty as the rest did.
Strategiclly for WW2 I think the following would be true:
Norway joins the Axis - Germany gets access to Norwegian ports (that happened anyway in OTL). The Royal Navy keeps a Carrier and some destroyers. The KM also keeps some destroyers and a few major surface assets. My memory off the cuff is a bit shaky here, but I think they lost a WW1 DN and a few cruisers. Military impact...negligible, perhaps an SS Division or two.
Finland joins the Axis - same as OTL.
Sweden joins the Axis - Some more light naval units, Baltic still a German lake. Maybe an army for Russia that probably meets the same fate as the Italians and Hungarians.
I dont know what the economic power of WW2 Scandinavia, but I suspect that it won't be that great, not enough to have a serious impact on the overall war.
Strategically, more targets for Bomber Command and the USAAF. More for the Luftwaffe to defend, so, we can assume the airwar probably progresses in a similar manner.
So, overall I can't see the war changing dramatically with the inclusion of Scandinavia.
Norway joins the Axis - Germany gets access to Norwegian ports (that happened anyway in OTL). The Royal Navy keeps a Carrier and some destroyers. The KM also keeps some destroyers and a few major surface assets. My memory off the cuff is a bit shaky here, but I think they lost a WW1 DN and a few cruisers. Military impact...negligible, perhaps an SS Division or two.
Finland joins the Axis - same as OTL.
Sweden joins the Axis - Some more light naval units, Baltic still a German lake. Maybe an army for Russia that probably meets the same fate as the Italians and Hungarians.
I dont know what the economic power of WW2 Scandinavia, but I suspect that it won't be that great, not enough to have a serious impact on the overall war.
Strategically, more targets for Bomber Command and the USAAF. More for the Luftwaffe to defend, so, we can assume the airwar probably progresses in a similar manner.
So, overall I can't see the war changing dramatically with the inclusion of Scandinavia.
Wasnt Sweden at least fairly close to joining with the Axis due to German pressure and eventually gave the Germans free transit over their country along with some beneficial economic deals? If you get Norway joining the Axis say in early '40 and you get say a little harsher Winter War(IIRC Sweden was supportive of Finland) with maybe more Swedish involvement they would be friendlier to the Axis I think.
Hah...Sweden was a fascist country: there were
The organizations struggled for racial frequency
There were the lists of Sweden jews////
The way to make Sweden an Ally of German-to land English troops inNorway-England wanted to ocupeed Sweden mines too.
Finland was fascist country too. When Finland was realesed the Murders of russian(not only soldiers and policemen) begin. There was the plans of "Great Finland" from Leningrad to Archangelsk.
Ddenmark and Norway are too frightened with german-there pro-German parties are too small.
The organizations struggled for racial frequency
There were the lists of Sweden jews////
The way to make Sweden an Ally of German-to land English troops inNorway-England wanted to ocupeed Sweden mines too.
Finland was fascist country too. When Finland was realesed the Murders of russian(not only soldiers and policemen) begin. There was the plans of "Great Finland" from Leningrad to Archangelsk.
Ddenmark and Norway are too frightened with german-there pro-German parties are too small.
Valdemar II
Banned
No Sweden wasn't a fascist country, at least not outside communist propaganda, there was free election and the government was Social Democratic.
Actually, during the war, the government was an Unity Government of every party in the Riksdag but the Communists (there were no fascist or Nazi parties in the Riksdag, so those weren't an issue). Naturally, as the biggest party, the Social Democrats were the leading ones, the ones that got the Prime Ministership.
And, of course, racism and antisemitism isn't proof of Fascism, really...
Vault-Scope
Banned
Believing a German invasion of Norway is imminent, britain demands Norway to allow allied troops on its soil and when the Norwegian gov refuse, launches the invasion of Norway.
Then, there is the matter of Finland, which faces an all-out sovietic invasion in 1940, which western allies support in order to stop expansion of German influence.
Sweden had already mobilised in face of british invasion, receives a massive amount of refufgees and start to mobilise massively.
Local national-socialist movement increases considerably, number of incidents between
On June 22nd 1941, Swedish armies launch an offensive to liberate Finland, Britain launches an attack against Sweden from Norway.
The quick response of the Swedish military and the Danish declaration of war meant that britain failed to secure their conquest, Swedish army comes back in full force several weeks later.
From February to May 1942, Germany launches a campaigne to liberate first Sweden then Norway.
As Germany launches it´s offensives toward the caucase, Swedish and Norwegian volunteers reclaims most of Finland with help of local guerilla forces.
After the German retreate of early 1943 from the Caucase and North Africa, relative peace is broken between the soviet-union and the Scandinavian-Union.
Summer of 1943 sees a major US/UK bombing raid against Oslo, population anger increases even more.
National-Socialist movements takes power but decide to waite before taking German side.
May 9th 1945, allied troops moves into Danemark for its involvement against the british in 1941-1942.
The US governement demands the new governement to remove itself but cannot intervene, as problems are rising with the soviet-union, the soviet-union grants military equippement to the Scandinavians.
In the latter 40s, Norwegian governement start "reconciliation" with the west, in the early 50s a coup overthrow the Norwegian governement and ban political organisations that where pro-Germans during WW2. A great number of which would find refuge in neigbouring Sweden.
In 1954, an another coup is launched in Sweden against the National-Socialist governement, by a cabal of treacherous power-hungry party members and generals supported by a number of other war-profiteers.
A counter-insurrection is hovewer spontaneously organised and defeats the attempt, a new coalition governement is set-upp, the National Socialist Alliance.
Sweden´s intervention in WW3 some 6 decades later turned the tide in europe, forcing the european unionist armies to stop their sadistic and totalitarian agression against the freedoom-loving peoples of eastern europe.
Then, there is the matter of Finland, which faces an all-out sovietic invasion in 1940, which western allies support in order to stop expansion of German influence.
Sweden had already mobilised in face of british invasion, receives a massive amount of refufgees and start to mobilise massively.
Local national-socialist movement increases considerably, number of incidents between
On June 22nd 1941, Swedish armies launch an offensive to liberate Finland, Britain launches an attack against Sweden from Norway.
The quick response of the Swedish military and the Danish declaration of war meant that britain failed to secure their conquest, Swedish army comes back in full force several weeks later.
From February to May 1942, Germany launches a campaigne to liberate first Sweden then Norway.
As Germany launches it´s offensives toward the caucase, Swedish and Norwegian volunteers reclaims most of Finland with help of local guerilla forces.
After the German retreate of early 1943 from the Caucase and North Africa, relative peace is broken between the soviet-union and the Scandinavian-Union.
Summer of 1943 sees a major US/UK bombing raid against Oslo, population anger increases even more.
National-Socialist movements takes power but decide to waite before taking German side.
May 9th 1945, allied troops moves into Danemark for its involvement against the british in 1941-1942.
The US governement demands the new governement to remove itself but cannot intervene, as problems are rising with the soviet-union, the soviet-union grants military equippement to the Scandinavians.
In the latter 40s, Norwegian governement start "reconciliation" with the west, in the early 50s a coup overthrow the Norwegian governement and ban political organisations that where pro-Germans during WW2. A great number of which would find refuge in neigbouring Sweden.
In 1954, an another coup is launched in Sweden against the National-Socialist governement, by a cabal of treacherous power-hungry party members and generals supported by a number of other war-profiteers.
A counter-insurrection is hovewer spontaneously organised and defeats the attempt, a new coalition governement is set-upp, the National Socialist Alliance.
Sweden´s intervention in WW3 some 6 decades later turned the tide in europe, forcing the european unionist armies to stop their sadistic and totalitarian agression against the freedoom-loving peoples of eastern europe.
Last edited:
Jomazi
Banned
1918
Soviet forces intervene in Finland, securing victory for the Reds in their civil war.
Sweden sees its traditional enemy now all dressed up in red just next door. More militarist government throughout the 20s and 30s build a strong and comparatively modern standing army. Perhaps a failed intervention in said civil war also plays in.
1940
Allied attempt to secure Narvik (Norway) and the mines of Norrland in a blitz-invasion is foiled and thus fails miserably. They however invade Iceland to prevent the Germans or their allies to do so. Norway and Sweden enters military alliance, with Denmark joining a few months later. Weserubung is prevented as Germany sees no need. Though officially neutral, the Scandinavian alliance leans heavily towards the Germans.
1941-42
As Nazi Germany commences their invasion of the USSR, the Finns revolt and the Scandinavian alliance openly intervenes. The rest of the Allies declare war on the SA but the fighting is restricted to pointless (mainly naval) raids.
Soviet resistance in Finland is gradually mowed down, and the Finns naturally join the Alliance. Further, the alliance severs Murmansk and take control of Karelia.
Meanwhile, the Germans are bogged down in Stalingrad, and it becomes more and more obvious that the war is being lost.
What now? Hitler will want more "commitment" from his ally, but they (the Scandinavians) just want to keep what they've taken.
A separate peace with the USSR would likely bring Hitler to a tantrum and result in war. Wasting tens of thousands of soldiers in the USSR for no other reason than appeasing him is almost as bad, especially as the USSR is going to come "knocking the door" soon enough anyway. Perhaps they pull a Franco and demand unrealistic "help" to be able to fight, perhaps they simply misinform the Germans that lots of fighting are taking place in the north, while secretly seeking a separate peace with the USSR, perhaps returning control of the Kola-peninsula.
My suggestion, if you want a post-ww2 fascist Scandinavia is: Have it acting obstinate during 1943 while secretly negotiating with the USSR and the Allies, franticly arming for a possible German intervention...
Which never comes, though vitriolic threats are thrown their way. As the USSR get up to their feet, the Alliance has negotiated a "phony war" in the north where ethnically Russian territories as well as land access to Murmansk is returned.
Now, who's the bigger snake? Would Stalin attack first opportunity to avenge the defeats of 1941, despite a treaty?
To further cement Fascist Scandinavia, have Stalin initiate a large-scale war in the north in 1944. The USSR gains some territories, but at great losses, and peace is concluded in late 1944 with everyone still hating each other, paving the way for a Western/NATO aligned fascist Scandinavia during the cold war.
The most likely development into a "fascist" state in Sweden would be the Social democrats turning more militaristic (see above) and eventually turning the country into a virtually a one-party state early in the 30s or late in the 20s. Due to communists supporting siding with Soviet and the Right enthusiastically supporting Hitler, the move towards a one-party system is cemented during the war due to these parties becoming outlawed.
After all, the first legislation of eugenics was in Scandinavia. Nazis losing their influence gradually could simply mean a more scientific take on eugenics. IOTL a bastard-version of old Nazi eugenics was practiced well into the late 60s, meaning you could get forcibly sterilized for "looking stupid" among other things.
Soviet forces intervene in Finland, securing victory for the Reds in their civil war.
Sweden sees its traditional enemy now all dressed up in red just next door. More militarist government throughout the 20s and 30s build a strong and comparatively modern standing army. Perhaps a failed intervention in said civil war also plays in.
1940
Allied attempt to secure Narvik (Norway) and the mines of Norrland in a blitz-invasion is foiled and thus fails miserably. They however invade Iceland to prevent the Germans or their allies to do so. Norway and Sweden enters military alliance, with Denmark joining a few months later. Weserubung is prevented as Germany sees no need. Though officially neutral, the Scandinavian alliance leans heavily towards the Germans.
1941-42
As Nazi Germany commences their invasion of the USSR, the Finns revolt and the Scandinavian alliance openly intervenes. The rest of the Allies declare war on the SA but the fighting is restricted to pointless (mainly naval) raids.
Soviet resistance in Finland is gradually mowed down, and the Finns naturally join the Alliance. Further, the alliance severs Murmansk and take control of Karelia.
Meanwhile, the Germans are bogged down in Stalingrad, and it becomes more and more obvious that the war is being lost.
What now? Hitler will want more "commitment" from his ally, but they (the Scandinavians) just want to keep what they've taken.
A separate peace with the USSR would likely bring Hitler to a tantrum and result in war. Wasting tens of thousands of soldiers in the USSR for no other reason than appeasing him is almost as bad, especially as the USSR is going to come "knocking the door" soon enough anyway. Perhaps they pull a Franco and demand unrealistic "help" to be able to fight, perhaps they simply misinform the Germans that lots of fighting are taking place in the north, while secretly seeking a separate peace with the USSR, perhaps returning control of the Kola-peninsula.
My suggestion, if you want a post-ww2 fascist Scandinavia is: Have it acting obstinate during 1943 while secretly negotiating with the USSR and the Allies, franticly arming for a possible German intervention...
Which never comes, though vitriolic threats are thrown their way. As the USSR get up to their feet, the Alliance has negotiated a "phony war" in the north where ethnically Russian territories as well as land access to Murmansk is returned.
Now, who's the bigger snake? Would Stalin attack first opportunity to avenge the defeats of 1941, despite a treaty?
To further cement Fascist Scandinavia, have Stalin initiate a large-scale war in the north in 1944. The USSR gains some territories, but at great losses, and peace is concluded in late 1944 with everyone still hating each other, paving the way for a Western/NATO aligned fascist Scandinavia during the cold war.
The most likely development into a "fascist" state in Sweden would be the Social democrats turning more militaristic (see above) and eventually turning the country into a virtually a one-party state early in the 30s or late in the 20s. Due to communists supporting siding with Soviet and the Right enthusiastically supporting Hitler, the move towards a one-party system is cemented during the war due to these parties becoming outlawed.
After all, the first legislation of eugenics was in Scandinavia. Nazis losing their influence gradually could simply mean a more scientific take on eugenics. IOTL a bastard-version of old Nazi eugenics was practiced well into the late 60s, meaning you could get forcibly sterilized for "looking stupid" among other things.