AH Challenge: east block communist cars that are "good"
- Thread starter ArKhan
- Start date
Indeed, cars built for endurance that came from the USSR and other WP countries were actually good. The sales of their modernized versions and latest generations are still going strong (the Lada Niva being an excellent example of an EB car that actually is good, comfortable and one of the best civilian jeeps/SUVs that money can buy).
A phenomennon that was symptomatic for the often lousy car manufacturing in the EB was the fact that most of the cars exported for sales in the West (including our Škodas, for example) had to be significantly upgraded, since the governments and company chiefs were affraid that potential Western buyers would be outright disappointed or even horrified by the Spartan level of furnishings and accessories available for any given model.
(And I say this as someone from a country that produced what were arguably the best and most up-to-date and sophisticated passenger cars in the whole EB. Fridge horror right there.
You kind of feel sad for all the Trabants, Wartburgs and Zaporozhets-es, which were the true nom de craps of the era. Though, TBT, even I recognize the reliability of the Trabant, despite its bad and eco-unfriendly fuel economy and myriads of little design flaws.)If being bothered by the 100 million dead - and countless more imprisoned or otherwise broken - communism left in its wake the last century makes me a McCarthyite, please feel free to label me as such.
The real problem is simply the inefficiency of command economies. They don't respond to consumer needs. The Soviet economy *was* able to respond to Stalin's need for first rank battle tanks (thanks also to some help from Walter Christie) and other military vehicles, because he was, in effect, their sole customer, one who would follow up refusal to buy with plenty of 7.62m brain hemorrhages for all concerned.
But there's a reason why command economies have never produced quality automobiles, at least not in any quantity. And no, Skoda's vehicles hardly count, given that the Czechoslovak regime merely made use of the existing human and machine too capital built up by the firm over previous decades.
The Lada Niva is the exception that proves the rule - a vehicle initially built for military applications. Which the Soviets were often rather good at.
Rex Mundi
Banned
100 million dead isn't a good human rights record. On the other hand, the Soviets don't need a good human rights record to attain moral parity with the west.
Indeed, cars built for endurance that came from the USSR and other WP countries were actually good. The sales of their modernized versions and latest generations are still going strong (the Lada Niva being an excellent example of an EB car that actually is good, comfortable and one of the best civilian jeeps/SUVs that money can buy).
A phenomennon that was symptomatic for the often lousy car manufacturing in the EB was the fact that most of the cars exported for sales in the West (including our Škodas, for example) had to be significantly upgraded, since the governments and company chiefs were affraid that potential Western buyers would be outright disappointed or even horrified by the Spartan level of furnishings and accessories available for any given model.
(And I say this as someone from a country that produced what were arguably the best and most up-to-date and sophisticated passenger cars in the whole EB. Fridge horror right there.
Czechoslovakian cars are indeed pretty cool, especially the sadly unsuccessful Tatra T700. There's a reason I'm sure that both Czechia and Slovakia today have thriving, if now foreign-controlled automotive industries.
BTW, I posted some stuff on OTL mothballed Škoda concepts not too long ago here (ingore the first model name, its picture has disappeared from that post).
Well, yes.
One way to achieve it, though certainly not an easy one.
Well, yes.
One way to achieve it, though certainly not an easy one.
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A decent POD might be Czechoslovakia joining the Soviet Bloc with a more "goulash communism" post-1956 Hungarian-style reformist government. Then Skoda would have a big incentive to produce quality consumer goods.
Either that or the Soviets/COMECON decide that exporting cars would be a good way to earn foreign exchange and put lots of investment into making Czechoslovakia/East Germany a center for luxury-ish car production.
Either that or the Soviets/COMECON decide that exporting cars would be a good way to earn foreign exchange and put lots of investment into making Czechoslovakia/East Germany a center for luxury-ish car production.
There's that well know story that when Nikita Kruschev visited the USA he was taken on a flight over a city at rush hour, the idea being to impress him with the number of cars. Instead he was horrified by the traffic jams and canceled all projects for improved private car production when he came back to the USSR. It's often said that the lack of a decent soviet motor industry comes from that "epiphanie"
A simple POD would be for him to over fly a motorway, with cars driving quickly by, and have a reverse "cars" moment...
A simple POD would be for him to over fly a motorway, with cars driving quickly by, and have a reverse "cars" moment...
Here are two sites on stillborn prototypes / concept cars from the Soviet Union / Eastern Bloc, with some of them actually having the potential to be "world-beaters" were it not for living under communist rule. -http://www.autosoviet.altervista.org/main-english.htm (in English thats understandable though not perfect) and http://madmax6391.deviantart.com/gallery/26489520 (in Russian)
Cook
Banned
And you have both completely missed the point; the Soviet and East German designers were instructed to make a people’s car, so they made a people's car; there was nothing at all preventing them from doing the exact same thing as Porche had done when told to do the same. In fact, they could have borrowed a lot of the original VW design and still come up with a better car than the Trabant.
Given that in the late ‘20s - early ‘30s, Soviet factories were adorned with banners stating ‘Do it the Ford Way because the Ford Way is Best!’, it is almost surprising that after the war the Soviets didn’t reverse engineer an American design just as they did America aircraft and British jet engines. Soviet design teams weren’t going to be hit with lawsuits for copyright infringement.
The major difference is that the Soviet leaders, unlike Hitler, were not car enthusiasts. If Ferdinand Porche had presented Hitler with Trabant, he would have very quickly see the inside of a concentration camp. Have one of Stalin’s successors be a keen auto enthusiast, or even love thier Lend-Lease Jeeps so much they want to see a good, Soviet version: the Jeepski.
Only if your idea of a fun 4WD adventure consists of being broken down on the side of the road.
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NothingNow
Banned
And this is different from a Land Rover of the period how?
And Nivas were supposed to pretty reliable and agile compared to most 4x4s of the era.
Except for the Jeep XJ Cherokees, which are just fucking invincible.
Reliable 4x4
Nivas required maintenance and would sometimes break down. So would many much more expensive contemporary 4x4, except for Toyota Land Cruisers, wich would never break down, but were expensive.
Soviet cars were designed in the old fashioned way, requiring a lot of regular, but inexpensive and unspecialised care to keep working reliably, not like modern cars, that are designed to require care only at long intervals, but of the specialised and expensive variety.
My first cars were inexpensive European 70s designs, and they also tended to break down a lot.
I don't think we made a unbreakable cheap car in westhern Europe until the first Golf.
Nivas required maintenance and would sometimes break down. So would many much more expensive contemporary 4x4, except for Toyota Land Cruisers, wich would never break down, but were expensive.
Soviet cars were designed in the old fashioned way, requiring a lot of regular, but inexpensive and unspecialised care to keep working reliably, not like modern cars, that are designed to require care only at long intervals, but of the specialised and expensive variety.
My first cars were inexpensive European 70s designs, and they also tended to break down a lot.
I don't think we made a unbreakable cheap car in westhern Europe until the first Golf.
I was just criticizing your notion that Nazi Germany's Volkswagen Beetle was succesful because the Nazis implemented a mostly-planned economy. The context in which that car came into being is not the same as with the cars produced in the far longer lived and far more complex planned economies of the EB. That's all I wanted to point out. I otherwise understand what you're hitting at. A lot of it is true.
Good point.
Yeah, she was a real cutie. Shame that the commie era governments effectively killed off Tatra's passenger car production.
Ah, the 603, aka the "Bashawmobile", as many had nicknamed it.
These days, most of the surviving ones are owned by vintage vehicle clubs and often rented for filming or as retro wedding limousines. Even our local club in Michalovce owns a 603. Some of my photos made at the club's meetings in the past few years :
But, personally speaking, I think the 600 "Tatraplan" is the coolest looking Tatra of all time :
Just look at it ! It's got "Dieselpunk" written all over it.
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How about a car made in the west by Communists?
Morris Marxist, as Jeremy Clarkson put it when driving the Marina.
Then again, Clarkson isn't exactly a fan of factuality : He mislabeled the Velorex microcar as a Soviet product and said it was standard issue for the entire populace, á la the Trabant or Polski Fiat. None of those two statements is even remotely true. Then again, he didn't even bother to name said car. BTW, speaking of goulash communism, have you ever heard of the Puli ?
It's as cute and silly as its canine namesake :
Here's the belated electromobile version concept from 1991, the ridiculously/awesomely-named Puli Pinguin 4 :
And no one has tried or dared to create an indigenous passenger car in Hungary ever since...
It's as cute and silly as its canine namesake :
Here's the belated electromobile version concept from 1991, the ridiculously/awesomely-named Puli Pinguin 4 :
And no one has tried or dared to create an indigenous passenger car in Hungary ever since...
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