AH Challenge: De-Islamicised Iran

[Midgard]

Disclaimer: before I go on - this post has nothing to do with merits or shortcomings of Islam.

Your challenge, should you accept it, is as follows:

With a POD after 1500 AD, create the chain of events that would lead to Islam becoming a minority or a very rare religion in Iran. It cannot be the religion of the ruling elite, and in fact must have no disproportionate influence (meaning TTL's Iran must NOT be an Islamic state). Bonus points if Iran returns to Zoroastrian faith. The more recent your POD, the better for the purposes of this challenge.

The limitations are as follows: it CANNOT occur due to a conquest by a foreign power or imposition of another religion by force from the outside, and by 2007, such non-Islamic Iran has to be an independent nation (although not necessarily a superpower), with ethnic mix not too dissimilar from OTL (i.e. it cannot be resettled by another ethnicity who did not follow Islam - this Iran still has to be Persian), and with Farsi being the primary spoken language.

Have at it!

 

[MerryPrankster]

I believe there was a TL somewhere on this board involving a Zoroastrian remnant surviving around Tabriz and reasserting itself over Iran in the aftermath of the fall of the Ilkhanate.

 

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

Not possible - it's just too late. I could do a Sunni Iran, but not a non-Muslim one.

 

[LordKalvan]

I wonder how you would consider a baha'i one (or something very similar): they are not considered Moslem. I can even see how to get a majority of believers in the new religion, probably not a 100% of the population. It would require a lot of blood, most likely (and it might not last)

 

[Archdevil]

Not possible - it's just too late. I could do a Sunni Iran, but not a non-Muslim one.

Why not?

From the birth of Mohammed to Muslim Iran took less than an century. Now we have 500 years to play with.
Just have some other prophet/messiah/whackjob come out of the Arabian/Central Asian desert with a cool sounding new religion and conquer all before him like the Muslim Arabs/Genghiz Khan/Tamerlane before him.
It is not preordained that Islam is the last major new religion to be formed.

 

[Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy]

It would require a lot of blood, most likely (and it might not last)

Just have some other prophet/messiah/whackjob come out of the Arabian/Central Asian desert with a cool sounding new religion and conquer all before him like the Muslim Arabs/Genghiz Khan/Tamerlane before him.

You guys missed this part:

The limitations are as follows: it CANNOT occur due to a conquest by a foreign power or imposition of another religion by force from the outside, and by 2007, such non-Islamic Iran has to be an independent nation (although not necessarily a superpower), with ethnic mix not too dissimilar from OTL (i.e. it cannot be resettled by another ethnicity who did not follow Islam - this Iran still has to be Persian), and with Farsi being the primary spoken language.

I personally think the key would be turning Persia into a great power.

 

[LordKalvan]

You guys missed this part:



I personally think the key would be turning Persia into a great power.

The Baha'i synchretist religion (or sect or whatever) originated in Iran; and the blood is coming out of a messy religious-civil war.

Mmmm, I wonder if Shah Abbas the great could not go one step forward in an alternate TL.

 

[Analytical Engine]

This challange is rather ASB. The PoD needs to be around seven hundred years earlier.

 

[Max Sinister]

Has there been any country in history that was de-Islamized? I only know about some areas of Byzantium (which were reconquered by the Arabs and re-christianized by force), and of course Iberia and the Balcans, where the Muslims were mostly expelled.

That's the thing with Islam: Punishment for apostasy is death. You can join it, but you can't leave it. (Unless you're living in a country ruled by non-Muslims, or maybe a very secular Muslim country.)

 

[Keenir]

That's the thing with Islam: Punishment for apostasy is death. You can join it, but you can't leave it. (Unless you're living in a country ruled by non-Muslims, or maybe a very secular Muslim country.)

?Then why did Mohammed say that if someone wishes to return to Islam, welcome them back.

you can't welcome back a corpse.

 

[Keenir]

The limitations are as follows: it CANNOT occur due to a conquest by a foreign power or imposition of another religion by force from the outside, and by 2007, such non-Islamic Iran has to be an independent nation (although not necessarily a superpower), with ethnic mix not too dissimilar from OTL (i.e. it cannot be resettled by another ethnicity who did not follow Islam - this Iran still has to be Persian), and with Farsi being the primary spoken language.

Have at it!

I suspect this one ranks up there with "Make medieval England a Muslim country, divergence after 950 AD"......very very difficult.

 

[Max Sinister]

?Then why did Mohammed say that if someone wishes to return to Islam, welcome them back.

I didn't read the Quran.

Seems I was too harsh, and apostasy isn't always punished by death:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy#Islam

 

[Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy]

?Then why did Mohammed say that if someone wishes to return to Islam, welcome them back.

you can't welcome back a corpse.

Because there's nothing in the Koran about the earthly punishment for apostasy. But there are things in the hadith; though the 4 Sunni legal schools and the Shiites disagree on what hadith should be accepted, their consensus is that apostasy by a sane adult male is punishable by death unless he repents. Note that I say consensus (predicting that Abdul's fury may be directed at me), since there are probably some scholars who disagree with this. And no, it's not applied in all Muslim countries.

Anyway, religion's not supposed to make sense. Don't tell us about these contradictions, tell the nearest Muslim.

 

[Max Sinister]

@VoCSe: ...unless he was forced to apostate, that is.

 

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

I didn't read the Quran.

Seems I was too harsh, and apostasy isn't always punished by death:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy#Islam

Like most Holy Books, its contradictory. Muhammad does welcome back apostates - which wouldn't be possible if you killed them.

 

[Midgard]

So, back on topic... do you think there is a possibility with the Safavids? I am not too familiar with the dynasty, but is there a chance they might end up converting and at some point making it stick?

 

[Jordal]

Well, if you take the hard line Sunni view, then Iran is already a de-Islamicized country.

 

[Midgard]

Well, if you take the hard line Sunni view, then Iran is already a de-Islamicized country.

I was thinking in terms of it being a non-Islamic country by any measure, including its own.

 

[M79]

The last major chance IMO is the IlKhanate, in which Christianity or Buddhism could prevade Persia and perhaps surrounding countries.

 

[Ran Exilis]

The last major chance IMO is the IlKhanate, in which Christianity or Buddhism could prevade Persia and perhaps surrounding countries.

I agree with this, although it is worth noting that appearantly, Zoroastrianism underwent a renaissance during the Ilkhanid period as well...