AH Challenge: CSA wins, but Lincoln is still considered a great President

Lincoln might still get good PR for abolishing slavery in the remaining slave states, if he were so inclined.

If Buchanan gets the primary blame for the secession of the South, Lincoln might avoid the opprobrium--"he did his best, but the secessionists were too entrenched" or something like that.
 
Lincoln might still get good PR for abolishing slavery in the remaining slave states, if he were so inclined.

If Buchanan gets the primary blame for the secession of the South, Lincoln might avoid the opprobrium--"he did his best, but the secessionists were too entrenched" or something like that.

This, but Lincoln would probably still be unpopular in his own time, but might be considered a "Gerald Ford" by today's standards.
 

Japhy

Banned
If he listens to the "Let them Go" fraction and keeps the north united, Abolishing slavery, and launching reforms such as the Homestead act with just the loss of the Deep south, who might very well just come back after a few years or continue on their own economically weak way, could lead to him being viewed as a rather good president.
 
If he listens to the "Let them Go" fraction and keeps the north united, Abolishing slavery, and launching reforms such as the Homestead act with just the loss of the Deep south, who might very well just come back after a few years or continue on their own economically weak way, could lead to him being viewed as a rather good president.

That's a good point, but the POD is after Ft. Sumter.
 
If he's assasinated at any point I imagine he'd be considered great by virtue of his martyrdom. Maybe a sort of 19th century JFK?
 
If he's assasinated at any point I imagine he'd be considered great by virtue of his martyrdom. Maybe a sort of 19th century JFK?
I don't think martyrdom alone grants greatness; look at how Garfield is perceived, as an example: mourned greatly in his day as a martyred president, but almost a footnote in history today.

IMHO, if Lincoln managed to somehow lessen the horrors of the "War Between the States", or to manage to diplomatically persuade the C.S.A. to come back into the fold, he would be remembered as a greater figure than we think of him today.

He might achieve the former by controlling some of the more hawkish military leaders of the day, instead of allowing them as much free reign, perhaps? Thus, leading to less resentment in the South.

A victorious Confederacy might not be as difficult to persuade to rejoin the Union as you might think, although it is most probable that a core confederacy would remain outside of the Union, with border states trying to figure which side their toast would be better buttered by.

Just remember, a Confederate victory does not necessarily entail the success of the C.S.A. as a nation. The earlier you have a Confederate victory, the less likely it is that the several states will feel united in their efforts to survive against the Union.
 
Last edited:
Lincoln might still get good PR for abolishing slavery in the remaining slave states, if he were so inclined.
???? Why would he do that? He didn't free any slaves in the North, IOTL, did he? The Emancipation Proclamation was a great act of drama - but only freed slaves where the Union couldn't enforce that Proclamation (yet).

So why would he free slaves in the North iTTL?
 
Lincoln opposed slavery

Lincoln opposed slavery. A core reason the South left the union. He did not free the slaves in the North to avoid a crisis in the union loyal border states that still had slaves.
 
Lincoln opposed slavery. A core reason the South left the union. He did not free the slaves in the North to avoid a crisis in the union loyal border states that still had slaves.
Exactly. If the South breaks away, he's going to try even harder to keep the Union slave states in the Union. So, again, why would he abolish slavery?
 
Mission impossoble

This is mission impossible. Had the South won, Lincoln would have gone down in history as the great tyrant a bit like George 111 in American History. He suaspended habeus corpus and there was some pressure in the Western states to stop a seperate break out. Instead of being the saviour of the union he would be the equivalent of George 111 losing the colonies. I can't see him gaining any kudos
 
One of the European powers gets involved into the war, breaks the maritime blockade and boosts the Confederate military power.

Instead of giving up, Lincoln announces that he won't accept defeat while there is still a drop of blood in his veins. He takes personal command of the Union army (if only in a symbolic way) and goes to the front while a giant Confederate army reinforced with European allies marches over Washington.

During the following battle Lincoln is killed by a mortar shell. Months later the US government is forced to give up and recognize the independece of the CSA, but Lincoln is remembered as the greatest president since George Washington.

140 years later, half of the threads in this board are "WI Lincoln lived?"
 
This is mission impossible. Had the South won, Lincoln would have gone down in history as the great tyrant a bit like George 111 in American History. He suaspended habeus corpus and there was some pressure in the Western states to stop a seperate break out. Instead of being the saviour of the union he would be the equivalent of George 111 losing the colonies. I can't see him gaining any kudos
First of all, I wasn't aware that Britain had 111 kings with the name of George.:rolleyes:

Second, what's this about stopping Western states from breaking out? Are you claiming the western states wanted to secede? Um, no. Wrong. Yes, the habeus corpus thing will make him lose points, but that's not goingto be a big issue among less educated Union citizen who could see him as a martyr.

As for him being remembered well and losing, I would say have him killed at a point in the war when things were going the Union's way. You get the whole "If Lincoln hadn't been killed so viciously, we would've won" mentality and his vp Andrew Johnson probably would have been blamed more. Think how Johnson(Kennedy's VP) was blamed for Vietnam when there were signs that Kennedy would have done something extremely similar.
 
Last edited:
Top