With a POD no earlier than January 1, 1901. What "cripple" means is entirely up to you- whether it means political, social, economic decline or all three and more. All that matters is that the US is a wreck by the time the 3rd Millenium begins. The only restriction is that none of these three powers can be exclusively behind a plot to weaken the US, be the major instrument in it's decline, or come out on top because of it- Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, or Communist China. Other governments of those nations are fine for world domination after the fall of America.
AH Challenge: Cripple America
- Thread starter luakel
- Start date
A series of asteroids falls on Europe and North America. While the rest of the world weathers through the climate changes with a severe loss of life, "The West" is damaged beyond repair. No longer will western imperialism hold down the people of the world, whether it be the late and unlamented British Empire or the developing USA.
Glen
Moderator
Okay....
Start off with Congress passing an embargo on goods and loans to the combatants in WWI except for food (humanitarian of them, isn't it).
This leads to the US not benefitting from WWI economically, except for their agricultural sales.
An even weaker US economy gets hit by massive Depression a few years earlier, and worse. Dust Bowl hits on schedule.
Business Plot gets further along, and actually is implemented, leading to the inadvertent death of FDR, and a second US civil war, though not along regional lines, in the US in the 1930s.
Widespread dislocation, starvation, and other nastiness ensues.
Well, that's a start....
I thought the Spanish Flu started in Europe or Asia, and spread across Eurasia until US soldiers from WW1 brought it to North America.
FDR comes into office, but for whatever reason the congress is filled with Republicans, so much of the reforms he tries to impose are shot down, or tied up in red tape for years.
While the economy does take an up swing, it doesn't handle the large unemployment as most hope it would; FDR is remebered as a single term president. As WWII roars on America stands firm in its isolation, and neither the Axis or the allies win. A stalemate with a power struggle between the UK, France vs. the Axis vs. Russia. America has no real stance in the world, depressions and recessions occur almost every generation, and international tariffs are forcing the US to import more then they export. In the 50's and 60's as much as 7% of US citizens migrate to Germany, Russia or a western European country where health care and jobs are open.
While the economy does take an up swing, it doesn't handle the large unemployment as most hope it would; FDR is remebered as a single term president. As WWII roars on America stands firm in its isolation, and neither the Axis or the allies win. A stalemate with a power struggle between the UK, France vs. the Axis vs. Russia. America has no real stance in the world, depressions and recessions occur almost every generation, and international tariffs are forcing the US to import more then they export. In the 50's and 60's as much as 7% of US citizens migrate to Germany, Russia or a western European country where health care and jobs are open.
Alcuin
Banned
Nope the 1919 epidemic started on a chicken farm attached to an army base in Kansas City.
It actually started in cramped American barracks. A few scholars have linked the Spanish flu with a American flu strain that affected a county in Kansas.
Wow. You learn something everyday.
Say, should I feel proud that such a major epidemic has the "Made in America" stamp on it?
There were suggestions in a programme I saw a year or two back that it actually started on the western front the year before with a lot of deaths then but it wasn't recognised at the time. Basically the concentration of both large number of men in poor conditions and similarly huge numbers of livestock for feeding them. It was thought that something like birdflu jumped the species barrier and started infecting a lot of people. Then troopships helped take it over much of the world.
Hard luck Dean. I don't think the US can take the credit.
Steve
luakel
I have a timeline I have played about with that tweaks WWI a bit and evolves into WWI being between a fascist US and an Anglo-Japanese alliance in 1929-35. In a real bloodbath the US ends up totally defeated and seriously curtailed territorially, as well as internally divided politically after the war. Alternatively a reproachmence between Britain and Germany means that they are allied in WWI. As such they defeat the Franco-Russian alliance and then or later clash with the US.
If you want a pre-nuke TL involving an external opponent then you really need to have Britain on the other side. Otherwise its virtually impossible for anyone to get near the US as they have to get past the RN 1st. Also we have the bases that could be used in such a war.
Steve
I have a timeline I have played about with that tweaks WWI a bit and evolves into WWI being between a fascist US and an Anglo-Japanese alliance in 1929-35. In a real bloodbath the US ends up totally defeated and seriously curtailed territorially, as well as internally divided politically after the war. Alternatively a reproachmence between Britain and Germany means that they are allied in WWI. As such they defeat the Franco-Russian alliance and then or later clash with the US.
If you want a pre-nuke TL involving an external opponent then you really need to have Britain on the other side. Otherwise its virtually impossible for anyone to get near the US as they have to get past the RN 1st. Also we have the bases that could be used in such a war.
Steve
There were suggestions in a programme I saw a year or two back that it actually started on the western front the year before with a lot of deaths then but it wasn't recognised at the time. Basically the concentration of both large number of men in poor conditions and similarly huge numbers of livestock for feeding them. It was thought that something like birdflu jumped the species barrier and started infecting a lot of people. Then troopships helped take it over much of the world.
Hard luck Dean. I don't think the US can take the credit.
Steve
I think they can to be honest. For the Influenza strain came from America, and there is a lot of data to back this up. While World War I did not cause the flu, the close quarters and mass movement of troops quickened its spread. Researchers speculate that the soldiers' immune systems were weakened by the stresses of combat and chemical attacks, increasing their susceptibility to the disease.
A large factor in the spread of the disease was the increased amount of travel. The modernization of transportation made it easier for sailors to spread the disease more quickly and to a wider range of communities. Yet without America....
There were suggestions in a programme I saw a year or two back that it actually started on the western front the year before with a lot of deaths then but it wasn't recognised at the time. Basically the concentration of both large number of men in poor conditions and similarly huge numbers of livestock for feeding them. It was thought that something like birdflu jumped the species barrier and started infecting a lot of people. Then troopships helped take it over much of the world.
Hard luck Dean. I don't think the US can take the credit.
Steve
Well, Europe had the Black Death, and we just got through the Asian Bird Flue. And while the US has more poisonous snakes than everyone else, it just aint the same...
Truly, though, the US military had bad luck with disease. In the Mexican-American War, the Spanish-American War, the Civil War, WW1, and even during the Panama Canal more casualities were caused by disease and infection than all the other causes put together.
Actually I think the convicts have that priviledge.
Prior to the post WWII limited war that was actually the case with just about every conflict everywhere. Even including deaths from infected wounds in the batttlefield totals.
Steve
1) China, in its overconfidence about being able to survive the scenario, meets with several Saudi, Japanese, and Russian investors to call in 30% of the US national debt on October 23, 1998. We are forced to default on it, by Feburary 1999 faith in the dollar begins to plummet. US government declares that it will not pay Chinese debt until 2010, faith in US government as creditor drops even faster. US dollar begins freefall on June 3, 1999 as President Clinton announces that the debt will be paid by running the printing presses 24/7 until all monies owed are paid. By September food riots break out as money no longer worth paper it's printed on. November sees large scale rioting as farmer co-ops hold out valuable grain stocks in hopes of better market prices but few people have faith in talk of "currency reformation". US announces return to gold standard as only means to solve problem and cuts back 75% of government welfare programs. By December 31, 1999 five cities are burning from riots and ten more are on the verge, martial law is declared and the worldwide economy is suffering in ways that make the Great Depression look like a mild hiccup.
2) Moscow missile command suffers a communications breakdown and misreads a missile test by Norway in 1995, WWIII is accidently invoked
3) As #2 but with Lt col Petrov calling in sick in Sept 1983 and a computer glitch results in WWIII
2) Moscow missile command suffers a communications breakdown and misreads a missile test by Norway in 1995, WWIII is accidently invoked
3) As #2 but with Lt col Petrov calling in sick in Sept 1983 and a computer glitch results in WWIII