AH Challenge - Conquer/Contain the USA!

OK, here's a challenge:

With a POD no earlier than Nov 11, 1918, conquer or contain the USA by 1950.

Rules:
1. No natural catastrophes; i.e. no asteroids hitting Nebraska, no plagues of zombies running amok in Chicago, no aliens landing in New York.
2. The United States must be largely as it was in OTL - i.e. no civil war. You can have a president other than FDR in 1932, but not Huey Long, and there will be a President.
3. The US must not be 'stupid'. For example, if an overseas threat arises the US will respond by building up the military. Isolationism is fine, but not stupid isolationism (i.e. someone's tanks on the Rio Grande will cause an immediate reaction. Heck, Mexico even making a deal with someone who could potentially put tanks on the Rio Grande will cause a reaction long before those tanks gets there).

FWIW, I think 'contain' is possible, I do not think conquest is.

Have at it!

Mike Turcotte
 
The German Revolution results in a communist government and they enter into the Soviet-Polish war. The Communists win the war, Poland makes territorial concessions to the Soviets and gets their own communist government. France and the United Kingdom, beset by their own troubles, are unwilling to restart the war so soon. Romania is intimidated and decides not to invade the Hungarian Soviet Republic, instead opting to simply protect their own borders. An international communist society is set up to further the global revolution and coordinate the actions of current communist countries. Later in the 20's, the Communists (prompted by various territorial claims) declare war on and invade Czechoslovakia. France and the United Kingdom declare war on the Soviets in order to protect the Czechs, but, supported by an immense fifth column) the Communists defeat France and again install a communist government there. The war with the United Kingdom simply peters out over time as neither side can overcome the other. The Republicans come to power in Spain and though a Nationalist revolt starts, it is killed in its infancy by military intervention. A Communist Hegemony now stretches from Portugal to the Pacific that supports leftist movements across the globe.

I have a hard time imagining the US expanding its influence globally after that. Maybe in the Pacific, but they would be pressed to maintain their influence in the Americas and focused on combating communists at home.
 
Very simmilarly to the opposite topic, this is not easily to accomplish, mainly since the USA territory is vast and stretched, with a highly decentralized population and industrial capacity.

In millitary terms, the USA cannot be conquered by an occupation type of force, due to above mentioned resaons. You can at least try to concetrate on several parts, with high density of economical and industrial centers. Primary problem is to get there first, before such a large operation is countered by the US Armed forces.

Containing the USA is equally difficult, but slightly more likely, since the USA are not the only economical power anymore in the world. A sort of non armed boycot on a global scale can force the USA to loose influence, if backed up by a comparable millitary force, equal in power and potential to the USA. This later is not possible at the moment, but some potential powers are at least capable of doing this in the future. (Isolationalism Policy of the USA would also do the job by the way.)
 

Thande

Donor
While it was exaggerated, I think The Man in the High Castle had it right when it had the USA never recover from the Great Depression and fail to be energised by WW2 due to being locked out of the markets in question. That's only Step 1, but I think it works in that regard.
 
USA is just like russia. great distances, good industry and good patriotism. impossible to conquer. but USA has a thing that no major power (maybe except the roman empire) in the world ever had. suckish neighbors. it is impossible to make a sea invasion to the USA, beacuse of the same reason it is impossible to do so the england. this leaves us with only one option: USA loses influence by time, then mexico for example sign an alliance with some great power (nazi germany? soviet russia?). while this power hold the USA fleet (at both oceans!) the major power's troops will run through mexico. splitting into two, each army group will run to each coast, securing the US major industrial centers.

this is nearly impossible.

and what do you mean in "containing?"
 
Possible but pretty difficult, especially with a POD that late. So much of the rest of the developed world has been bled white by WWI.

Also, even with a POD earlier it would need a number of things going wrong for the US and right for its opponents.

This excludes the obvious techno-fix of an opponent getting both nukes and a delivery system before the US and using them.

Even then I would still define conquer as crush in battle rather than any permanent occupation of the entire country or large parts of. That would only really be practical by a Nazi/Soviet type system.:(

Steve
 
1920: A Dark horse wins the Republican Nomination--Albert Hall, a highly corrupt individual, winds up being elected President of the United States. Under Hall, graft becomes the way of Washington in a way it has never been before. Vice President Harding dies in office.

1924: Hall wins Re-election. Several Scandals break, and he is impeached for serious crimes. His controversial decision to pardon himself lasts him through the end of his term. The economy begins a death spiral, leading to serious economic misery, but Hall survives his term in Office

1928: What will later become known as the Great Depression begins to unfold, as Indiana Governor D.C. Stephenson is elected by a sweeping margin over Republican Herbert Hoover. Stephenson is the national standard of the KKK, and his emergence to the presidency coincides with the murder of WEB Dubois for reasons that aren't coincidential. Stephenson is a cold blooded killer of women and a vicious demogouge against non-whites. The Combination of the KKK as his own private army and the blaming of blacks for economic hardship make Stephenson an immensely powerful President. But there are chinks in his armor; Chicago Mayor Al Capone is one of Stephenson's fiercest critics. Along with the support of Archbishop Charles Coughlin and Massachusetts Governor William Pelley, the three boldly fought against Stephenson. Despite endless accusations, the most the three can get out of Stephenson is a promise not to seek re-election. Given the economy, that's not much of a concern anyhow.

1932: The Great Depression continues to worsen. Michigan Senator Henry Ford, owing many favors to Capone, Coughlin and Pelley, beats Democratic challenger Franklin D. Roosevelt by a huge margin. Ford, to his credit, isn't interested in having a giant private army, but his reaction to the depression--cutting government spending, raising tariffs and tightening the money supply--are the cause, not the cure to the problem. Economic misery leads to a coup attempt by the Bonus Army; although the Capitol Building is Razed in the violence, mass arrests by the FBI as well as Martial Law in various states maintain a tenuous order. Thousands die of famine as the dust bowl emerges over neglected farmland.

1936: Better things were hoped for from President Huey Long, but the "kingfisher" was killed in office after just three days. The Socialist Party, led by Helen Keller and Upton Sinclair, attempt to seize power in a desperate bid to prevent the depression from getting worse. This borders on civil war, and ends only after President Bilbo (Long gave the Vice Presidency to Theodore Bilbo as a concession to the still powerful KKK wing of the Party). In years past, the FBI had grown considerably; the threat of civil war makes the need for an American Secret Police inevitable. While Bilbo doesn't believe in making the USA a complete police state, he's not above cracking some eggs to make some omelets either.

1940: William Pelley is elected President of the United States; the Klansmen fighting Silvershirts in the streets belies his great political stature. Pelley also has a solution to the long suffering of the US economy--militarism and war. Italy's facist model is the future--not a Germo-Soviet Communist nightmare, and not the corrupt Hall-Style presidencies of the past.

Expansion means Mexico, to the South, or Canada to the North. For the first time a century, the threat of invading Canada is a serious possibility. In Britain, the answer is a project known as "Tube Alloys". With French support, this project will pay serious dividends..

The US invasion of Mexico works very well, as US forces savage Mexico's small army. What follows after the attacks is an orgy of rape, violence and ethnic cleansing. Pelley has drawn upon a memory of "Manifest Destiny" to become the most popular president in memory. Border Skirmishes begin on the Northern Border.

1944: The USA's annexation of Mexico is rejected by the League of Nations. In Canada, British and French troops hope that Tube Alloys pays fruit before the inevitable drive north makes Canada an equal disaster. To the credit of France and Britain, it does. Defense Scheme No. 4 relies on the new power of the atomic bomb to thwart the USA's invasion of Canada.

Japan opportunistically attacks the USA and seizes Hawaii, as well as several other Pacific Possessions.

The USA eats several nuclear hits against cities. Washington, Boston, Detroit and Seattle are set ablaze by UK nuclear strikes. President Pelley is shot by a firing squad, and the USA is forced to accept Unconditional surrender.
 
Blue Max

Ouch! Hall-Stephenson-Ford-Long[briefly]-Bilbo-Pelley.:eek: That's a hell of a list of Presidents. Not sure if you really avoid the OP condition of no civil war but a set of leaders like that, in the background as well will ground just about any nation down. Given the mess that the US would be in after that 20 years of mis-rule it might well not need nukes to defeat them in such a conflict, if circumstances allow Britain and France a pretty free hand - i.e. no Germany or other power to distract them in Europe. Add in a successful nuclear programme as well and that's virtually overkill.

Steve
 
Blue Max

Ouch! Hall-Stephenson-Ford-Long[briefly]-Bilbo-Pelley.:eek: That's a hell of a list of Presidents. Not sure if you really avoid the OP condition of no civil war but a set of leaders like that, in the background as well will ground just about any nation down. Given the mess that the US would be in after that 20 years of mis-rule it might well not need nukes to defeat them in such a conflict, if circumstances allow Britain and France a pretty free hand - i.e. no Germany or other power to distract them in Europe. Add in a successful nuclear programme as well and that's virtually overkill.

Steve

For the sake of challenge, I intend no civil war, simply the threat of such to lead to brutal tactics of mass arrests, executions without trial, institutionalized torture and an American Police State widely hated by much of its people.

This a product of the For All Time school of thought--if you want a nation to really suffer, you give them the worst leaders you can. By 1944, the USA is a totalitarian hell hole that has much in common with Hitler's Germany, including its war against France and the UK.

There still are elections, the choices just start at Albert Hall and continue to decrease. In a nuclear war against the world's superpower with its own population in totalitarian hell, the USA will fall. This is just mind blowingly bad that it makes one wish that Charles Wallace were President.
 
OK, here's a challenge:

With a POD no earlier than Nov 11, 1918, conquer or contain the USA by 1950.

Rules:
1. No natural catastrophes; i.e. no asteroids hitting Nebraska, no plagues of zombies running amok in Chicago, no aliens landing in New York.

Have at it!

Mike Turcotte

Before I post my own idea, I want to ask a smartass question. Plagues of zombies and aliens landing are considered natural catastrophes? :)
 
POD in 1921 or 1920, no Washington naval treaty in 1923, as international relations are somewhat better than historically.
Hovewer, in 1924 France condemnes US investements in Germany, in 1925 naval race starts.
In 1929, a more imperialistic governement takes power in the US, by 1930 a conflict in south america have resulted in a full scale war between the UK/French/Japanese alliance and the US.
In 1931, Spain join the allies, the US becomes more powerfull and takes Iceland and Greenland, which had been occupied by the UK.
The US obtain crushing sea superiority in 1932 and attempt a landing in Ireland, which fails.
Due to the international situation Hitler is elected in the 1932 elections, Hitler takes power and within a year, Germany have joined on the side of England. A year later, Mussolini follows.
The US, meanwhile, takes over tropical africa and face a difficult campaign in Japan.
In 1937, the allies controls only Algeria, Tunisia and Morocco in North Africa but still holds to the middle-east and europe is secured from an invasion.
The US controls the rest of africa and former Franco-English colonies in south-east asia and latin america. Canada is, of course, annexed. :cool:

Between 1937 and 1945, the war is a stalemath between europe and north america.
Then in 1945, the europeans strikes at the North American Union with atomic bombs.
They strike Washington and New York with 30 atomic bombs, decapitating the last remaines of the civilian governement, the allies demand the return of all conquered territories.
US military takes power and the US begin working on its own atomic bomb but the europeans had the atomic bomb for years, they strike at US industrial targets with 50 more of them. 44 reach their targets.
Their atomic production reach 100 bombs a year in 1947, time by which the US detonates its own bomb.
US bombers strikes London in 1948, levelling the city, the UK stays in the war.
By 1950, the allies have established a solid presence in North America, US industry is no longer enough to contain them.
US military breakes appart into several factions that forms their own countries in central and western north america.
 
Top