AH Challenge: comparitive Religion in american public schools

[Straha]

WI conparitive religion courses were mandated in american schools? I was thinking in more of an required subject much like Government. If as an American you have to deal with various religious groups then it is a good idea to know something about their religion as ignorance breeds fear and hate. After WWII North Western Europe required these classes to avoid ignorance about religious minorities such as the Jewish Religion. In general it worked because the Governments tended to be run by Common Sense as apposed to some out dated religious system, fundamentalism tended to evaporate. However after the fall of the Wall in Eastern Germany Hate groups found fertile ground in the Religious Illiterate.

I know from personal experience that the Fundies, Conspiracy Cults and Hate Groups in general tend to be woefully ignorant of other religious groups. One of their main appeals is that they can tell the ignorant anything that they want and in general if that person will believe it if their is no evidence to contradict it. Once a person is exposed to the fact that the Bible contradicts it self several if not hundreds of times, the power of "it say that in the Bible disappears". Religion then becomes what it should be, an opiate that eases the pain of Modern Life and not the sole source of our guidance

 

[Grey Wolf]

WI conparitive religion courses were mandated in american schools? I was thinking in more of an required subject much like Government. If as an American you have to deal with various religious groups then it is a good idea to know something about their religion as ignorance breeds fear and hate. After WWII North Western Europe required these classes to avoid ignorance about religious minorities such as the Jewish Religion. In general it worked because the Governments tended to be run by Common Sense as apposed to some out dated religious system, fundamentalism tended to evaporate. However after the fall of the Wall in Eastern Germany Hate groups found fertile ground in the Religious Illiterate.

I know from personal experience that the Fundies, Conspiracy Cults and Hate Groups in general tend to be woefully ignorant of other religious groups. One of their main appeals is that they can tell the ignorant anything that they want and in general if that person will believe it if their is no evidence to contradict it. Once a person is exposed to the fact that the Bible contradicts it self several if not hundreds of times, the power of "it say that in the Bible disappears". Religion then becomes what it should be, an opiate that eases the pain of Modern Life and not the sole source of our guidance

I am little confused by this - are you saying that Americans don't have any kind of religious education because its supposed to be outside of state controls ? As in NONE AT ALL ? I had assumed it meant not pushing of the Christian or what-have-you religion rather than not educating the children in anything and leaving them ignorant of the world. So...most Americans get their ONLY religious education from their local church ? Hell, that would make the freaky extreme Christians a whole lot more understandable all of a sudden ! Their kids to go to freaky extreme churches and no one bothers to teach them about all the other religions of the world, tolerance, similiarities etc ? Why doesn't someone stick it in as part of the Geography or History National Curriculum if R.E. on its own is not allowed ? It seems an awfully big ommisssion

Grey Wolf

 

[MerryPrankster]

In some of my social studies classes (World Geography was one, believe it or not), we studied other religious faiths a bit. Plus I had Jewish friends, so I knew what they believed to an extent (before making efforts to study the "deeper stuff").

I think the biggest obstacle to a Comparative Religions course is that the modern courts' typical interpretation of the First Amendment means NO religious ANYTHING put on officially in schools.

Such a class, even if its motives are good (such as opposing hate) would probably be shot down.

 

[NHBL]

You've got it, Grey Wolf! (Caution--Flamable!)

Most Americans get NO religious education beyond what their parents and church give them--especially in their early years. They simply recieve a load of indoctrination from their parents and church. A lot of parents present their beliefs as fact--to be questioned no more than the fact that when you drop something, it falls down. The amount of tolerance taught varies strictly by individual and church, temple, mosque, coven, or whatever.
A family that doesn't follow the prevailing religion needs to insure that the children keep a low profile--children can be especialy cruel to their peers at times, and they can be even more intollerant than adults. In this, I speak from painful experiance.
Even in adulthood, those who have an unpopular religion--or worse, choose to question and think--can have a rough time of it. Not truely overt--but it will sometimes be the "good christian" who gets the promotion--the person who doesn't question, shows up regularly at church, etc.
Oh, yes--and if an American adapts a very unpopular religion, and is vocal about it, sometimes friends dry up, and it becomes a major source of family tension.
All of this isn't meant to paint a grim picture of the USA as a land dominated by religious nuts--but they do have a serious amount of control of the US. The strength of the religious influence I've described earlier varies greatly across the nation, and perhaps is absent on some placesI haven't travelled enough to know for sure.
I do wonder if comparitive religion classes would make a difference. I tend to doubt it, however--I would expect that, in many areas, they would simply compare Christian sects, touch lightly on Judiasm, and grossly distort everything else. The religious right would most likely end up finding a way to shove their views into the schools at the expence of most of the others.
There would also be another evolution battle--to move it out of science class altogether and place it in the comparitive religion classes.

 

[David Howery]

NHBL> geez, where the hell do you live? I've never had my religion (or lack thereof) come up in casual conversation among my peers; it's never been a factor in my career, has never affected my finding a place to live, and it never had an affect on my childhood. I've lived in two of the most conservative/religious states in the union (ID and UT) and religion was never much of a topic. While it's true that Americans don't get much education on religion outside of social studies classes, most of us simply don't care what everyone does for a religion either. I couldn't tell you the religion of any of my employees, my friends, or any of my casual acquaintences in town. I've never lived anyplace where your religion was all that important....

 

[Leo Caesius]

NHBL> geez, where the hell do you live? I've never had my religion (or lack thereof) come up in casual conversation among my peers; it's never been a factor in my career, has never affected my finding a place to live, and it never had an affect on my childhood. I've lived in two of the most conservative/religious states in the union (ID and UT) and religion was never much of a topic. While it's true that Americans don't get much education on religion outside of social studies classes, most of us simply don't care what everyone does for a religion either. I couldn't tell you the religion of any of my employees, my friends, or any of my casual acquaintences in town. I've never lived anyplace where your religion was all that important....

You should visit some of the more "liberal" states, then. Here in Boston, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a proselyte. People are really quite queer about their religion in such places. Strange men wander the Boston common wearing sandwich boards proclaiming the Eschaton. The floors of the T are littered with religious pamphlets, and I've often been approached by random strangers and invited to "Bible Study Groups." Note also the bizarre fascination of the Boston Globe towards on Kerry's Jewish blood, which borders on the disturbing.

 

[zoomar]

Unfortunately "separation of church and state" has been so broadly defined in the US that most public school districts are afraid to permit ANY formal mention of this fairly important human institution in instruction. I've always felt this is a mistake - both for the reasons cited about providing no couterweight to extremely fundamentalist family backgrounds - and as a mechanism to provide unreligious people an unbiased view of the histories and doctrines of the major world religious traditions. I am sure most Americans can go through 12 years of public education and never learn about the historical and theological relationships among Judaism, Chistianity, Islam, Bahais...or anything at all about the teachings of Zoroastrianism, Buddhism, Sikhs, or Hindus. Within the context of this instruction I would also support invitations to practitioners of these faiths to visit the classes and discuss their personal perspectives and answer questions. Clearly the formal instruction should not be used to discuss why any one tradition is "better" than any other. Putting this within cultural geography, history, or philisophy curricula would be fine - this would also serve as a place to put the so-called "creationism vs evolution" debate out of science curricula and to a place where it might make some sense.

 

[NHBL]

Overstated some

NHBL> geez, where the hell do you live? I've never had my religion (or lack thereof) come up in casual conversation among my peers; it's never been a factor in my career, has never affected my finding a place to live, and it never had an affect on my childhood. I've lived in two of the most conservative/religious states in the union (ID and UT) and religion was never much of a topic. While it's true that Americans don't get much education on religion outside of social studies classes, most of us simply don't care what everyone does for a religion either. I couldn't tell you the religion of any of my employees, my friends, or any of my casual acquaintences in town. I've never lived anyplace where your religion was all that important....

I saw this thread at a time when something else had brought back some old--and strong memories, and I was feeling a bit bitter about the whole situation. Still, religion can come up in conversations, and I've known some people who made the mistake of being open about an unpopular religion in the past--and they did have some problems with their peers. When I lived elsewhere, I ended up relatively isolated from my peers because I mentioned that I wasn't dragged off to Sunday school or church--they thought that not going to church made me a bad person--never mind what I believed was right or wrong, going to church was everything. I was in fourth grade at the time--thankfully, the family moved away that summer for unrelated reasons.
Overall, it's not anywhere near as bad as perhaps I gave the impression--old memories can bring out the worst aspect of a situation, and the only related problems I've had since then have been with the nuts that haunt college campuses and stroll door to door proselytising.
Still, I stand by my statement that if someone has an unpopular religion, it's best to keep a low profile, you never know if perhaps your boss (who decides if you should get that promotion) is thinking that non-Christian = bad.
I also do believe that, in many areas, any comparitive religion class would be hijacked by the dominant religious group of the area--perhaps Judiasm and many brances of Christianity would be discussed, but Wicca? Shinto? Zoroastrianism? Forget it. At most, there might be a one day or two section on "Other religions."
Never forget the power of the religious right in American politics--and education is a political issue here.

 

[David Howery]

NHBL> dang, you had it bad. I never went to Sunday school when I was a kid either... no one cared. I've never had a boss ask me what my religion was (if I had, being the smartass I was as a kid, I'd have probably said pagan Satanic cultist). Other than having Jehovah's Witnesses show up at my door, I'd have to say that hardly anyone I met really cared what my religion was. Granted, I haven't lived in all that many states, but I had the idea people everywhere didn't really care what your religion was so long as you didn't trumpet it from the rooftops and get in their faces about it.
Leo> actually, I live in a very liberal state now (OR, where the motto is "We're #1!.. in unemployment"). I can't say that anyone here cares about my religion. For that matter, I can't say that anyone in this town is all that religious either, judging from the nasty behavior of so many of the citizens here..

 

[NHBL]

being "religious" and being a nasty person

The fact that someone claims to be religious and weather he or she is nasty, intollerant, or honest or dishonest have little correlation. There are many people, nominally belonging to one religion or another, who don't live by its philosophy, and yet condem many who do.
I never had a boss ask about religion--just as well, or I'd have been to the labor board if it had been in a business context when I was asked.
But yes, at one point in my life, I did have it bad--and a rough time in another location that I rode out better. It was not in states that have a reputation for religious fundamentalism, either.

 

[Anthony Appleyard]

Which religions accept converts and which not? For example, I get the impression that conversion to Hinduism is only allowed as an unusual favour and is as long a job as going overland from England to India and the last part the hardest like getting through the deserts in eastern Iran. The author Michael Frawley alias Pandit Vamadeva Shastri was accepted. I read that it is easier for Christian or Muslim Indians who can prove Hindu ancestry.

 

[Leo Caesius]

Which religions accept converts and which not?

The Zoroastrians (at least, the Parsi community in Mumbai) have been discussing this issue for a long time, and recently came down on the wrong side of the issue, IMHO. Until quite recently, one could find mobeds who considered half-Parsis to be Zoroastrians (a large group in India, where many Parsis marry out of their faith, to Hindu and Muslim partners) and would perform navjod ceremonies. I've even heard rumors of mobeds who would accept converts. Now, the hardliners (led by the ultraconservative Dasturji Kotwal) have deemed that even Parsis who marry outside of their religion are no longer Zoroastrians - to say nothing of their children. Naturally, converts are not allowed.

The Zoroastrian faith, once one of the world's great religions, is now maintained by only a handful in Iran, Gujarat, and Zanzibar (these three places being the only ones that maintain fire temples). The numbers dwindle from year to year, and by excommunicating a large number of the faithful, Kotwal is taking a large step towards consigning his religion to the dustbin of history.

 

[Hierophant]

Yes I am currently a Junior in High School so I can say from experience that we do learn about other religions, at least now. Mostly it is done during freshmen year World Studies, you mostly focus on the different christian groups, Judaism, Islam(Shia and Sunni), Hinduism, and last Buhddism(sp?). The rest are considered to small to be studied, as their are tons other stuff to learn (like where is canada? ).

 

[Nosb]

I went to a liberal high school. We had a lot of Jews and Jehovah’s Witnesses, some Hindus, and a few (Indian) Muslims. He had in entire a year course on world religions. Ancient Nature Worship, Egyptian and Sumerian Paganism, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, Confucianism/Taoism¸ Buddhism, Greek and Roman Paganism, Early Christianity, Catholicism, Protestantism, and Eastern Orthodoxy were all covered.

 

[NapoleonXIV]

I went to Catholic School. I was 18 before I was realized it was called the Protestant "Reformation", not "Revolt."

Nowadays much different in Catholic Schools. I was teaching in one last year and the Religion curriculum is very Comparative. Largely False is compared with Completely True, yes, but its a start.

I heartily endorse teaching religion in schools. Make it a required part of the curriculum and kids will hate it even more than they do now, if possible. My graduating class were all convinced atheists and few of us have backslid to my knowledge