AH Challenge: Christian Ottoman Empire

Keenir

Banned
your challenge is to have a Christian Ottoman Empire.

It can be a small nation, like in the map, or a great power like OTL Islamic Ottomans. There are no limits to your PoD, so long as the outcome is as realistic as possible.

What can you come up with?

Option #1: Jem.
 

Baskilisk

Banned
This is something I've always wondered about, but I'm not enough of an expert in the subject to know to get there. Maybe if the Turks were even more secular and eventually allowed Christians as citizens. Slowly they'll gain control of the government. What kind of butterflies this creates I don't know, but I think it certainly does away with Janissaries, which is probably bad for the Turkish military in the long run.
 

Xen

Banned
Maybe the Muslim armies never conquer Persia which remains Zoroastrian, or somewhere before the rise of Islam converts to Christianity?

I guess there can be some sort of deal struck between Turkish leaders and the Byzantine Emperors, you can settle in Byzantine lands if you convert to Christianity. What would be interesting is if the Turks converted to a different branch of Christianity like the Chaldean or Nestorianism
 
Christian Ottomans drastically changes the dynamics of the region imo. It's possible for some major differences from OTL this way.

Here are some loud thoughts:
  • Byzantines win at the Battle of Mantzikert, sundering Seljuk forces.
  • Many Turkish nomads still try to settle into Anatolia.
  • Byzantines accept them on condition they become Orthodox, and settle them dispersed to counter Bulgarian and Slavic influences in their northern Balkan possessions. They keep them far from Anatolia to prevent "collabs" with "the other" Turks, and also have them closer to Constantinople and its reach.
  • "Ottoman" (under a different, Christian based name, rather than based on Othman) state is probably founded at some later date depending on how does Byzantium fare. I imagine that the "Ottomans" will have clashes with the Serbs and Bulgarians in this reality, much to the Byzantines' benefit, who could use them as ruling elites for vassal states in the region much like OTL Ottomans used Greeks for such roles.

This requires a POD before 1025 (Basil II's death) to somehow resolve the crises of the 1025-1071 period that weakened the Byzantine Empire. A stronger Byzantine Empire would probably survive for longer, and mayve use the "Ottoman" state as a client state/protectorate/ally/vassal/whatever. For all we know, they could settle them in South Italy depending on what the Emperor devised.

...Actually this is tempting. Orthodox Ottoman Empire centred in Napoli, led by Despot Othmanos the Popesbane?:D
 
It probably wouldn't be called "the Ottoman Empire", since it's named after Osman, which is a Muslim name. But it's possible that if the Byzantines had endured longer, they could have come to depend on Turkish mercenaries. As many Turks were still pagan in te 11th c, these could have adopted Christianity in Byzantine service, and eventually establish a new dynasty. Hence, Byzantine Empire with Turkish Dynasty = Christian Ottoman Empire.
 
It probably wouldn't be called "the Ottoman Empire", since it's named after Osman, which is a Muslim name. But it's possible that if the Byzantines had endured longer, they could have come to depend on Turkish mercenaries. As many Turks were still pagan in te 11th c, these could have adopted Christianity in Byzantine service, and eventually establish a new dynasty. Hence, Byzantine Empire with Turkish Dynasty = Christian Ottoman Empire.

sounds interesting
I wonder how would manage the rest of Europe facing a Christian Ottoman Empire (I suppose as powerful as it was IOTL)
 
It probably wouldn't be called "the Ottoman Empire", since it's named after Osman, which is a Muslim name. But it's possible that if the Byzantines had endured longer, they could have come to depend on Turkish mercenaries. As many Turks were still pagan in te 11th c, these could have adopted Christianity in Byzantine service, and eventually establish a new dynasty. Hence, Byzantine Empire with Turkish Dynasty = Christian Ottoman Empire.
That's actually even more bloody likely than my suggestion, especially since the Byzantines had various dynasties from various different places. A Turkish dynasty would likely have adopted the Byzantine culture, customs, language and faith, and not differentiate itself radically from the Byzantine Empire in general... And depending on the numbers of Turks having arrived in Byzantium, they could have influenced major parts of Anatolia or even the Balkans with their beliefs and military doctrines.

Such a path would have changed the traditional meaning of "Turk = Muslim" for Western Europe too. Probably the term "Turk" would be kept at its Byzantine meaning, meaning nomadic peoples from the East (such as the Seljuks, the Pechenegs and others.) A Turkish dynasty would retain the characteristic name (like "the Macedonians" and "the Constantinians", they could be called "the Turcopoles" or descendants of Turks.)

Changing the thousand-year-old Byzantine system to something entirely new would be major butterflies/ASB however. I imagine that this dynasty would use Greek as the state language and orthodox Orthodoxy as the state faith still, partly due to the strength of the old aristocracy and the like.

Which still adheres to the historical fact that the Ottomans used to integrate existing systems through their conquest, if I am not mistaken...
 
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