AH Challenge: C of Cont Army and President Benedict Arnold

Gracie

Banned
As we all know, Arnold was cheated out of glory several times....

Are there any alternate histories where he becomes Commander in Continental Army then the first US President?

If your solution has Patrick Ferguson killing George Washington in Sept 1777, more kudos to you.
 
I think Arnold is actually a ready candidate for that arch-plotter of the early Republic, Alexander Hamilton. I think that Hamilton formed his basic political ideas about national unity and centralized government very early on, and was working to get his political ideas enacted already through Washington. Basically, I think Hamilton saw the army as the vessel that would deliver the unity of the country. I think Hamilton was largely working under Washington's direction, doing the things that the gentlemen warrior Washington couldn't (so Hamilton was basically Washington's political arms, doing things that Washington couldn't dirty himself with), the C-in-C of the Army, ended up as President of the country, and Hamilton used the army in 1782(3?) for the Newburgh(sp?) Conspiracy to attempt to force more national unity.

Arnold was an excellent battle field commander, I think you could say that he just lacked the strategic vision, that might be the wrong word, foresight perhaps, to turn that tactical command into a longer term sort of a thing. So if we have Washington get killed, post-Saratoga and post-whatever-battle-Gates-ran-away-from, then Arnold is probably the next choice for C-in-C of the Continental Army.

So Hamilton is going to use Arnold, except that the relationship is going to be different than with Washington. Hamilton is going to be the one manipulating Arnold, the one running him, rather than Washington running Hamilton. And this is going to result in some rather major differences. Arnold doesn't strike me as a man who will give up command of the Army easily, and he does strike me as a man who is perfect for the kind of military-national-unity-Army-as-the-State guy. And I can easily see Hamilton deciding that the Army is the only path to national unity.

So whose for Arnold as President-for-Life with Hamilton as his [Prime Minister, Chancellor, Consul] of the Senate (elected for life).
 
Even easier would have Washington killed at the close of the French-and-Indian War. A pick of commanders would result in a jumble of northern and southern commanders. Gates might not surface without Washington's influence early on, and Arnold could end up in command of the army.

He was a strategic genius and could easily become the army's commander in chief and lead to a quicker victory.
 

Nietzsche

Banned
I think Arnold is actually a ready candidate for that arch-plotter of the early Republic, Alexander Hamilton. I think that Hamilton formed his basic political ideas about national unity and centralized government very early on, and was working to get his political ideas enacted already through Washington. Basically, I think Hamilton saw the army as the vessel that would deliver the unity of the country. I think Hamilton was largely working under Washington's direction, doing the things that the gentlemen warrior Washington couldn't (so Hamilton was basically Washington's political arms, doing things that Washington couldn't dirty himself with), the C-in-C of the Army, ended up as President of the country, and Hamilton used the army in 1782(3?) for the Newburgh(sp?) Conspiracy to attempt to force more national unity.

Arnold was an excellent battle field commander, I think you could say that he just lacked the strategic vision, that might be the wrong word, foresight perhaps, to turn that tactical command into a longer term sort of a thing. So if we have Washington get killed, post-Saratoga and post-whatever-battle-Gates-ran-away-from, then Arnold is probably the next choice for C-in-C of the Continental Army.

So Hamilton is going to use Arnold, except that the relationship is going to be different than with Washington. Hamilton is going to be the one manipulating Arnold, the one running him, rather than Washington running Hamilton. And this is going to result in some rather major differences. Arnold doesn't strike me as a man who will give up command of the Army easily, and he does strike me as a man who is perfect for the kind of military-national-unity-Army-as-the-State guy. And I can easily see Hamilton deciding that the Army is the only path to national unity.

So whose for Arnold as President-for-Life with Hamilton as his [Prime Minister, Chancellor, Consul] of the Senate (elected for life).

Huh. That's an interesting thought. America, the "Prussia of the New World". Albeit, no monarchy...
 

burmafrd

Banned
Talk about conspiracy theories. Have to laugh at the talk of Washington using Hamilton. washington had to be dragged kicking and screaming back after the war-but I guess some people just have to try and make something out of nothing.

Arnold was tactically brilliant, strategically pretty sharp as well. His problem was that he had a hard time being diplomatic and really did not play well with others. And lets face it- you have to have a serious deficit of SOMETHING to do what he did in the OTL= so odds are something would have happened in the other time line to set him off.
 
I don´t think Benedict Arnold would have had the political skills to have become President. Washington was not only the hero, he had a member of the House of Burgesses and the Continental Congress.
 
Talk about conspiracy theories. Have to laugh at the talk of Washington using Hamilton. washington had to be dragged kicking and screaming back after the war-but I guess some people just have to try and make something out of nothing.

When the Continental Congress was deciding who would be the C-in-C of the then forming Continental Army (really various local militia units around Boston) Washington wore his military uniform every day to Congressional sessions. Maybe they were the only clothes he had that fit. But I think he wore them in order to remind everyone there he was the most qualified to lead the Continental Army, a way to remind everyone without having to say anything. The man was definitely ambitious, he was just a gentlemen about how he pursued those ambitions. He had to be asked to assume positions of authority, but he made sure that he would be asked.

Arnold was tactically brilliant, strategically pretty sharp as well. His problem was that he had a hard time being diplomatic and really did not play well with others. And lets face it- you have to have a serious deficit of SOMETHING to do what he did in the OTL= so odds are something would have happened in the other time line to set him off.

I bet he does have a serious deficit of something, in fact I'm banking on his serious deficit to achieve my long-dreamed of mistopia, an evil post-Revolutionary War America. ;)
 

burmafrd

Banned
So you are saying that wearing his uniform and thus becoming CinC means that he is plotting to become dictator or something like that. This despite all his actions during the war when he COULD have done that and did not; and his leaving to go back to Mt Vernon after the war and pretty much staying out of politics for the next several years. Trying to say that the Apollo Landings never occurred would be easier to support then this one.
 
So you are saying that wearing his uniform and thus becoming CinC means that he is plotting to become dictator or something like that. This despite all his actions during the war when he COULD have done that and did not; and his leaving to go back to Mt Vernon after the war and pretty much staying out of politics for the next several years. Trying to say that the Apollo Landings never occurred would be easier to support then this one.

You're mistaking my intentions. Washington was ambitious, yes, and even a little devious in his ambitions, but he was well intentioned. He was ambitious to be Cincinnatius (sp?). I am saying that he got what he wanted, and he wanted to be the man who created his country. Unlike many men who have that honor, he was satisfied with securing and then unifying his country, without then going on to break it because of his own inability to let go.

President Arnold is the focus of my distopic ambitions.
 

burmafrd

Banned
I think Hamilton was largely working under Washington's direction, doing the things that the gentlemen warrior Washington couldn't (so Hamilton was basically Washington's political arms, doing things that Washington couldn't dirty himself with), the C-in-C of the Army, ended up as President of the country,

Unless you have some real evidence to back this up, its nothing but a wank.
 
I think you need two PODs to help bring this about. First, solve Arnold's financial problems, since they were one of the key reasons he turned traitor in the first place, and were a source of friction between him and the CC. Second, have his future wife in Philadelphia (whose name escapes me at the moment) marry someone else before they ever meet. She and her father were Tories, and her sympathies went a long way to turning him against the Colonials....
 
I think Hamilton was largely working under Washington's direction, doing the things that the gentlemen warrior Washington couldn't (so Hamilton was basically Washington's political arms, doing things that Washington couldn't dirty himself with), the C-in-C of the Army, ended up as President of the country,

Unless you have some real evidence to back this up, its nothing but a wank.

Are you really questioning Washington's ambition?

Alright. Clearly you slept through the part in history class about the first 8 years of the United States of America under the U.S. Constitution. During this time Hamilton was viewed as Washington de facto Prime Minister, leading the political faction (the Federalists) who existed in order to carry out the President's policies. Hamilton and Washington had a close working relationship from their days as General and aide-de-camp in the Continental Army. That I choose to view Hamilton as Washington's political guy is not unreasonable given that Hamilton was a political guy, and he obviously was carrying out Washington's policies.
 

burmafrd

Banned
Actually I have made a point of ignoring the garbage taught in schools- and since I went to school in the 70s that should give you a hint. I have also made it a point of reading several Washington biographies, including Freeman's. So frankly as far as I am concerned you are out to lunch on this. Show me a REPUTABLE historian that backs your claims.
 
I think you need two PODs to help bring this about. First, solve Arnold's financial problems, since they were one of the key reasons he turned traitor in the first place, and were a source of friction between him and the CC. Second, have his future wife in Philadelphia (whose name escapes me at the moment) marry someone else before they ever meet. She and her father were Tories, and her sympathies went a long way to turning him against the Colonials....

A lot of Arnold's financial difficulties were because of his second wife, Peggy Shippen, so this may be a way of killing two birds with one stone.
If Arnold's first wife, Margaret Mansfield, doesn't die in 1775 and/or John Andre proposes to Peggy Shippen before she meets Arnold, this is credible.

Having Horatio Gates catch a bullet at Saratoga would help, too.
 
A lot of Arnold's financial difficulties were because of his second wife, Peggy Shippen, so this may be a way of killing two birds with one stone.
If Arnold's first wife, Margaret Mansfield, doesn't die in 1775 and/or John Andre proposes to Peggy Shippen before she meets Arnold, this is credible.

Having Horatio Gates catch a bullet at Saratoga would help, too.

If Horatio Gates catches a bullet at Saratoga, then I think that might be a big enough POD to ripple away Arnold's stationing in Philadelphia. If Gates gets killed, then would he get the command that Gates ended up with post-Saratoga?
 
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