AH challenge: Bolesheviks get all of Tsarist territory

raharris1973

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by 1922, or a little more territory.

Partial credit if they get at least to the 1941 borders by 1922.
 
No Miracle of the Vistula and independent Poland ceases to exist, with the Germans (jumping in later) and Soviets dividing it up.

Perhaps with Poland destroyed, the Soviets feel more confident rolling up the Baltic States?

Finland can be dealt with that.
 

raharris1973

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How difficult would it have been for the Sovs to

beat the Poles? How much do you need to stack the deck in their favor?
 
beat the Poles? How much do you need to stack the deck in their favor?

?

Do you mean its unfair for the challenge to crush Poland or how likely is it?

Really we're not talking about much territory more than OTL, Congress Poland, the Baltic States and Finland, though I can see Finland being difficult for the Allies to swallow. Red victory in the Finnish Civil War, followed by Bolshevik coup to ensure unification? This coupled with a Polish defeat and the Baltic States are toast, If the Soviets dont move into Germany, I doubt the West will care about Latvia by 1922
 

raharris1973

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I'm not asking about fairness, but about the likelihood

of the Soviet army being able to defeat and occupy Poland.
 

raharris1973

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If they can get Warsaw and crush Poland

what's their most likely western border - the 1914? 1914 plus Posen (Germany gets the corridor), All of Poland plus east Prussia (Germany is weak at this point).
 
Well, the USSR managed to roll back separatists in the Ukraine, Crimea, Far East, Central Asia and (taking a bit longer) the Caucasus

So, its not unfeasible to get back the Baltics, Finland and Poland - just harder

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 

raharris1973

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So, let's say they get Poland

then roll up the Balkans, get Finland back (harder) and win small border wars with Romania and Turkey. So that's 1914 plus a least a little extra (Galicia and Cracow)

Alot of their relationship in the 20s with Germany may depend on where the Soviet-German border is.

I could envision a good bit of cooperation if the Germans get their 1914 borders or at least get their way in Silesia, West Prussia and Danzig.

However, if the Russians get all of Poland including the corridor, or worse, scoop up Danzig and East Prussia, I have alot of trouble seeing the Rapallo treaty and subsequent cooperation. Germany would be more anti-Soviet in the 20s and early 30s. Now, there probably would be a good bit of two-way refugee movement. Lots of East Prussians would become boat people, and many suppressed German Marxists would move to East Prussia, at least for the first few years.

In the version with the bigger USSR they are likely to ally with Czechs in the face of German hostility, both face German irredentism.
 
Well, the USSR managed to roll back separatists in the Ukraine, Crimea, Far East, Central Asia and (taking a bit longer) the Caucasus
Crimea or Far East didn't have local separatist movements worth talking about. Several crazy marginals? Sure, but nothing which could not be dealt with by regular infantry brigade of 1920 vintage (worst case scenario). They did harbour active anti-communist movements, but it were epizodes of the bigger Russian Civil War.
 
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