AH Challenge: Balkanized South America

[Sgt Detritus]

On the subject of Brazil how about:

1. Pedro II's sons live to adulthood
2. Pedro dies a good few years earlier
3. A civil war breaks out over the sucession
4. Brazil breaks up into at least 2 states (3 if one of Pedro's daughters puts in a claim as well

 

[Max Sinister]

I had the idea of Brazil breaking up about slavery. As a reversal to the situation in the US (BTW: note that the official name of Brazil really is "The United States of Brazil"!), the north will keep slavery, and the south will abolish it. (I also used this in my Chaos TL.)

 

[Gonzaga]

I had the idea of Brazil breaking up about slavery. As a reversal to the situation in the US (BTW: note that the official name of Brazil really is "The United States of Brazil"!), the north will keep slavery, and the south will abolish it. (I also used this in my Chaos TL.)

No, the official name of Brazil is "The Federative Republic of Brazil". The name "United States of Brazil" was used from 1889 to 1968, when was changed.

 

[Roberto]

I don't see Brazil breaking up permanently after the time of Pedro. I do, however, see and like the possibility of Brazil never becoming one country. The Republic of Equator and a couple of southern provinces started out independent but got swallowed up.

 

[Gonzaga]

I don't see Brazil breaking up permanently after the time of Pedro. I do, however, see and like the possibility of Brazil never becoming one country. The Republic of Equator and a couple of southern provinces started out independent but got swallowed up.

Wich Pedro? If the second, it's extremely hard. But, during the Regencial Period, there were many provincial revolts, and some even declared the independence. If Pedro II, who was still a child during this period, suddenly dies, then there is no male heir, and probably the Empire would have been dissolved.

 

[Sgt Detritus]

Wich Pedro? If the second, it's extremely hard. But, during the Regencial Period, there were many provincial revolts, and some even declared the independence. If Pedro II, who was still a child during this period, suddenly dies, then there is no male heir, and probably the Empire would have been dissolved.

Sounds good to me

 

[Roberto]

Yep. That's what I meant.

 

[aavans]

The secessionist idea is alive and well in Brazil. There is a movement in the Southwest (Rio Grande do Sul, Parana and Santa Catarina). As recently as 1932 there was an armed secessionist effort in Sao Paulo.

 

[Gonzaga]

The secessionist idea is alive and well in Brazil. There is a movement in the Southwest (Rio Grande do Sul, Parana and Santa Catarina). As recently as 1932 there was an armed secessionist effort in Sao Paulo.

Can be alive, but not well. Only some nutters defend it seriously nowadays. Southerners can feel they are different from Northerners, and even sometimes they can talk about an "independent southerner republic", but my feeling, as a Riograndense, is that it's just more a joke to irritate people from the North than a serious political issue. Also, I would say it's a "gaucho" mania, since I've never met someone from Parana who defended it, even as a joke.

About the revolt of 1932 in São Paulo, it was never a secessionist movement. Their leaders wanted to restored the political power that São Paulo lost with the Revolution of 1930, and were trying to make Vargas accept a new constitution, but they never wanted seriously secced. They even tried to have, in the beggining of the revolt, support from Rio Grande do Sul and Minas Gerais, but failed. They didn't want to break Brazil, they wanted to control the country again.

 

[Joke Insurance]

Pampas

Sorry for the old post. I hope that this doesnt cause too much trouble.

What about Rio Grande do Sul/Pampas, São Paulo, Zulia or Acre?

 

[Gonzaga]

Sorry for the old post. I hope that this doesnt cause too much trouble.

What about Rio Grande do Sul/Pampas, São Paulo, Zulia or Acre?

Well, for Rio Grande do Sul, as was said above, you need something going very bad for the Empire during the Regency Period, but after that is extremely unlikely.

São Paulo was in the core of the political Brazil. For an independent São Paulo you would need no Brazil at all. Maybe if the Braganzas had never fled to Rio in 1808 the Independence process would be so different that it would be possible.

Zulia? I think you mean the "Republica Juliana", no? It lasted only four months, they controlled just one city "Laguna", it was proclaimed not by the inhabitants of Santa Catarina but by the invaders of Rio Grande do Sul, and the rebells made everything possible to irritate the population instead of trying to have their support. Very unlikely.

An independent Acre in the middle of the Amazon would be something that would irritate both Brazil and Bolivia. Only if Galvez, the guy who proclaimed the independence, makes some agreement with a foreing potence, giving rights of exploration of nearly all country to American or British companies, and the USA or the UK decides to back them, and even it is doubtful.