AH Challenge: Aragonese colonial empire

As the title states what would be a plausible POD for Aragon to have a colonial empire in the new world (doesn't have to be huge just a decent presence, Peru for gold may be a possibility)? They would need a Atlantic port (Navarre is a good choice) and the marriage of Isabella & Ferdinand would need to be prevented as well. POD should be in the 15th century if possible and you can delay the opening of the new world if that helps. Comments much appreciated!:)
 
As the title states what would be a plausible POD for Aragon to have a colonial empire in the new world (doesn't have to be huge just a decent presence, Peru for gold may be a possibility)? They would need a Atlantic port (Navarre is a good choice) and the marriage of Isabella & Ferdinand would need to be prevented as well. POD should be in the 15th century if possible and you can delay the opening of the new world if that helps. Comments much appreciated!:)

considering that the "discovery" of the americas was after Isabella and Ferdinand were wed that might need a major pod to solve, but in a kinda respect, when Isabella died the spainish colonies in the americas were under Ferdinands authority and he was only king of Aragon still, not Castille..perhaps you can have him keep the dual monarchy system, so that some colonists still live under Aragon and others Castille, but the fact was Spain was gonna get united no matter what by that point...Castille wanted all Iberia and the Aragonese were happy to join in by that point
 
Aragon's political and economic power at the time was very much invested in the Mediterranean and its control of shipping routes. In order to make Aragon interested in starting a colonial empire in the Americas, the POD must make Aragon shift its focus from the Mediterranean more towards the Atlantic.
 
Thats a good idea, how might that come about?

I have no idea. Evidently, King Edward of Portugal was married to Eleanor of Aragon. She survived him, but perhaps she dies in childbirth? Then, after a revolt by some Aragonese nobles is defeated narrowly, Edward becomes King of Aragon, ceding his throne to his brother Henry, known as the Navigator. Eventually, a longterm union of the two states is formed after Henry dies without children and Edward's surviving son John inherites both kingdoms, which are equally hostile to control by the crown of Castile-Andalusia. The two states equally divide the nation's new colonies (sponsored by Henry the Navigator), with all African colonies, plus Brazil going to Portugal and the Caribbean island going to Aragon.
 
I have no idea. Evidently, King Edward of Portugal was married to Eleanor of Aragon. She survived him, but perhaps she dies in childbirth? Then, after a revolt by some Aragonese nobles is defeated narrowly, Edward becomes King of Aragon, ceding his throne to his brother Henry, known as the Navigator. Eventually, a longterm union of the two states is formed after Henry dies without children and Edward's surviving son John inherites both kingdoms, which are equally hostile to control by the crown of Castile-Andalusia. The two states equally divide the nation's new colonies (sponsored by Henry the Navigator), with all African colonies, plus Brazil going to Portugal and the Caribbean island going to Aragon.

Very good ideas, how do you think Spain will factor into all this? Will they still go for Mexico/Parts of South America?
 
Very good ideas, how do you think Spain will factor into all this? Will they still go for Mexico/Parts of South America?

It depends on their resources. Without the extra power that came from having the forces of both Aragon and Castile to subdue the South, it will take substantially longer to defeat Grenada, and may include making deals with various local power brokers (thus Castile-Andalusia). That could prevent the Castilians from having the resources to make a big push for colonies, outside of things like the Canaries or a few islands in the Caribbean. In the long term though, a more tolerant Castile would be much more powerful, with a stronger merchant class, etc.
 
Set up a Portugal screw, have some successful Aragonese crusades in North Africa then have them inch down the African coast from Morocco and discover Brazil by accident?
 
Set up a Portugal screw, have some successful Aragonese crusades in North Africa then have them inch down the African coast from Morocco and discover Brazil by accident?

Yeah or have Portugal focus on the Carribean or maybe North America, while Aragon goes down Africa and towards Brazil, with a Castille screw instead.
 
I think I may have inspired this thread:D

I actually think that Aragon has a good chance in the new world if they have Navarre. Ferdinand apparently was the one who actually was gullable enough to believe Columbus about Asia, and later used that to take credit for discovering the Americas, so if he didn't marry Isabella, and managed to somehow inherit or conquer Navarre from his half sister Eleanor, he might still fund the Columbian expedition or some similar one to try to compete with the Portugese spice trade, since especially in the beginning the profits to be made in the spice trade were pretty insane. Even if he just ignores Columbus and any similar idea men, the Americas will almost certainly be discovered soon given how much the Portugese were beginning to sail in that general area with fully ocean going ships. It may take another decade, or even two or three decades, but it will happen.

As for their prospects once they get to the Americas, Aragon was more populous than Portugal, and with it's mediterranean Empire it would have a similar population to Castile, so they have a good shot in the America's. I think that where they end up once they catch colonizing fever is going to be kindof random, but the Aztecs and Incas are the two most prosperous civilizations in the Americas, so Aragon would probably want to conquer one or both of them for sure. If they totally miss out on south and central america, I could also picture them trying for lands in todays U.S., given their northern location. The Misissippi might be attractive, or maybe the Carolinas if they discover the gold there.
 
You have still one small problem: the black death. Aragon had a demographic problem and it would not have been able to continue expansion in the Mediterranean (Naples, North Africa) without the help of Castille. You should have a POD that would spare Aragon from the plague and punish harder the rest of the peninsula.
 
You have still one small problem: the black death. Aragon had a demographic problem and it would not have been able to continue expansion in the Mediterranean (Naples, North Africa) without the help of Castille. You should have a POD that would spare Aragon from the plague and punish harder the rest of the peninsula.

I can't see how that would happen easily. I think your best bet would be to punish Castile more, by having a sizeable part of the royal family killed by the plague, and a succession crisis then leading to a short but bloody civil war.
 
You have still one small problem: the black death. Aragon had a demographic problem and it would not have been able to continue expansion in the Mediterranean (Naples, North Africa) without the help of Castille. You should have a POD that would spare Aragon from the plague and punish harder the rest of the peninsula.

But my understanding is that Aragon post plague was still considerably more populous than Portugal, and Portugal was one of the most prolific colonisers of all. Even with those problems, they could still at least do something on the order of what the Dutch did, but I suspect them to have more possibilities than that.
 
But my understanding is that Aragon post plague was still considerably more populous than Portugal, and Portugal was one of the most prolific colonisers of all. Even with those problems, they could still at least do something on the order of what the Dutch did, but I suspect them to have more possibilities than that.

Well the Portuguese didn't colonize as much as they controlled.
 
Well the Portuguese didn't colonize as much as they controlled.
No, but they certainly colonized Brazil and controlled allot more, and were considered a colonial empire. I bet Aragon could end up in a similar situation so long as they manage to not get killed by France or Castile.
 
Have Aragon survive to 19th century-they could colonize parts of North Africa-Tunisia and Libya perhaps (especially if they still have Sicilly)
 
Some tidbits people may want to know:

Before Isabella of Castille married Ferdinand of Aragon, she had several suitors, one of which was the widower Afonso V who was some twnety years her senior. So a Castillian marriage to Portugal, and not Aragon is possible. This would keep the Crown of Aragon independent.

Ferdinand of Aragon did conquer Navarre in the early 16th century, andit was originally attached to Aragon. It was later transferred to Castille under the thinking that as part of Castille it could be better protected from France. In a scenario where Castille and Aragon are separate, this would remain part of Aragon.

The Crown of Aragon is a mixed bag economically. Various events had weakened the Aragon from its strong position in the centuries past. However, Aragon also possessed Naples and Sicily, and these Italian portions were very important to the economy of Imperial Spain.

  1. With this, we can imagine a situation where Castille joins with Portugal. Isabella marries Afonso V. Not sure who Ferdinand eventually marries.
  2. Columbus never sails because with Portugal's access to the East, Castille doesn't need its own, western route. This delays the discovery of the new world
  3. Navarre joins Aragon around 1510.
  4. At some future point, the new world is discovered, perhaps by Bristol fishermen looking for cod.
  5. Europeans begin to establish colonies in the New World, but it's probably over a longer period of time. Aragon's share is probably some colonies in the Caribbean.
The exact disposition of the colonial empires depend on too many factors, so it all depends on how you develop it.
 
Maybe if Charles of Viana and Agnes of Cleves produce an heir a united Basque and Aragon would be able to take advantage of colonization. You would also need to somehow avoid the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_against_John_II or make sure it is fast and victorious. I think the major reason why Portugal was successful, was because of their stable monarchy. The Aragonese however were often at war with themselves, and always caught between France, Castille, and the Italian situation making the nation very unstable.
 
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