AH Challenge: American "Raj" in Mexico

Wolfpaw

Banned
Your challenge, should you choose to accept it, is to have the United States succeed in "rajifying" Mexico between 1866 and 1900. This can come about however you like (voluntary union to outright conquest). And by "rajify," I mean basically have Mexico become the India to America's Britain. Of course it doesn't have to be as brutal or oppressively imperialistic or undemocratic as the Raj was, but I think you get my drift.

And yes I know how difficult/ASB this is, so don't bother pointing it out: just do the best you can.

Here's a stat or two that I think might come in handy:
American pop. (1870) / (1900): 38.6 million / 76.2 million
Mexican pop. (1900): 13 million

Now off you go! Let's see if we can get ourselves an American Reinado in Mexico! :D
 
Might help if you clarify "rajify" -- how similar to British dominion in India, and in what specific respects, does US power in Mexico have to be to qualify?
 
I'm trying to figure out a way to do this, but I keep coming up with "wouldn't it be easier to annex the place?"




As an aside, have you gotten my PM about the game?
 
A good place to start might be for the US to accept a protectorate over the republic of the Yucatan when it was offered to them.

Over time, splinter Mexican republics in Sonora or Baja can be made protectorates of, and Walker's Nicaragua expedition could be sanctioned to bring the Central American provinces into the fold

Cuba may be incorporated too

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
I'm trying to figure out a way to do this, but I keep coming up with "wouldn't it be easier to annex the place?"

Britain essentially annexed India, complete with crowing Queen Victoria Empress, and that didn't work.

Perhaps the US tries to take "all Mexico" and ends up having to puke much of it back up to due to military overstretch, the inability to assimilate so many people, slave-free issues, etc. The period from 1848-???? could be the Mexican equivalent of "the Raj."
 
Britain essentially annexed India, complete with crowing Queen Victoria Empress, and that didn't work.

Perhaps the US tries to take "all Mexico" and ends up having to puke much of it back up to due to military overstretch, the inability to assimilate so many people, slave-free issues, etc. The period from 1848-???? could be the Mexican equivalent of "the Raj."

India-UK is different than Mexico-US

India-UK: India is much much larger than the UK
Mexico-US: America is large than Mexico
India-UK: way more people live in India than the UK
Mexico-US: way more people live in the USA than Mexico
India-UK: India is on the other side of the world
Mexico-US: Mexico is bordering the USA
 
Mmm i think the POD would have to be at the end of the Mexican-American War. Maybe the "all mexico" argument wins over, but America realizes that it doesnt really want all that responsibility, and more racistly, dont want all those Mexicans.

Therefore, they set up a type of somewhat autonomous governing system that kind of pays tribute to the US, but isnt fully annexed.
 
My two cents:

- the stream of immigration to the Americas would to a certain degree be re-directed to an U.S.-administered Central America. In the long run, we would have relatively large Anglo enclaves/communities there.

- if the USA at some points decides to even more directly meddle with the affairs of their Southern neighbours (look up a list of military interventions), this will certainly not be restricted to Mexico, but most probably sooner or later encompass Central America as a whole, also Cuba, Hispaniola...maybe even Columbia and Venezuela.
 
India-UK is different than Mexico-US

India-UK: India is much much larger than the UK
Mexico-US: America is large than Mexico
India-UK: way more people live in India than the UK
Mexico-US: way more people live in the USA than Mexico
India-UK: India is on the other side of the world
Mexico-US: Mexico is bordering the USA

The British Empire did not have running political fights that broke out into armed conflict over which parts of the Empire would be slave and which ones would be free.

The British were also in the habit of keeping a very large standing army. Before and after the Civil War, the US military was not very large.

American politicians might not want to pay for a large standing army to continuously hold down central and southern Mexico.
 
OK - here goes.

POD 1863 - Gettysburg goes better for the Union.

Gettyburg goes better for the Union. Pickett's charge is even more of a disaster than in OTL. Lee, overcome with the magnitide of the disaster gallops forth on Traveller to rally the troops, and is killed by a Union sharpshooter. Meade, smelling blood in the water attacks, and manages to bag most of the Army of Northern Virginia. Scattered remanents flee to Virginia. With stories of Vicksburg and Gettysburg abounding, Confederate morale crumbles.

By late August, Richmond has fallen, and the Confederacy is in pieces. Only the Confederate Army of the Tennessee is still intact, and it is defeated in September. The Union declares an end to combat operations by the end of October.

However, several large Confederate formations, still full of fight, flee to Mexico. They offer their services to the Emperor Maximillian (and the French) who take them up on it. Benito Juarez is killed, and his movement suppressed. Lincoln and the North choose to ignore this for now - reconstruction is the name of the game.

From 1864 - 1874, there are a series of raids across the border by the ex-Confederates, who by that time are little more than well-organized bandits. In 1874, one of these raids penetrates to Austin. There, the state governor and several legislators are hanged for 'Crimes against the Confederacy', and several African Americans are lynched.

The raid enrages the people of Texas, as well as the Federal Government. An ultimatum is presented to Maximillian by President Hancock - allow the US the follow up on its investigation or face war. Maximillian, realizing that the French will not back him against the US, accedes to the demands of the US.

However, word of the ultimatum gets out, and, correctly fearing they would be prosecuted, the ex-Confederates stage a coup, putting Nathan Bedford Forrest on the throne as the Emperor of Mexico. The US sends a huge army under Sherman and his Cavalry leader George Custer to depose Forrest.

After several months of regular warfare (which sees all cities in Mexico fall to the US), and several years of brutal irregular warfare, Forrest and the Confederates are defeated. Some in the US call for annexation, and some call to simply leave. The US decides on a compromise. Not wanting Mexico for itself, and not wanting another power to dominate the devastated country (which has lost 25% of its population to most disaese and famine caused by infrastructure destruction), the US makes Mexico an 'Unicorporated Territory'. The US military occupies the country, and a US Viceroy (Officially called the Provisional Resident Leader). US business interests dominate the country. There is a nomimal Mexican government, and some law enforcement control (over Mexicans, not USAians), but no real power.

By 1914, there are rumblings of real independence as Europe decends into chaos...

Mike Turcotte
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
Wow, this is really great! I'm also happy that you included a President Hancock since that was what I was going to have in charge while this was all going on!

Now, I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask you a favor since you've displayed such a great penchant for getting very difficult things to happen :)

Is there any way you could think of where this could happen, but without the Confederate thing? I know that's the pivotal point and, don't get me wrong, it was nothing short of brilliant, but the TL I'm tenuously planning for an American Reinado to happen doesn't have a Confederacy in it, nor is America as hostile to slavery or filibusters in the 1860s-'70s as it was IOTL, though both are on their way out the door, so now hardcore pro-slavery filibusters I'm afraid.

The POD I was thinking of was basically the US taking up the Franco-British-Spanish offer to join them in intervening in Mexico in the early 1860s, the same joint expedition that eventually led to the French trying to install Maximilian.

Any way you could try and integrate this POD with something akin to the situation you've laid out in your post? It'd be much appreciated :)
 
- the stream of immigration to the Americas would to a certain degree be re-directed to an U.S.-administered Central America. In the long run, we would have relatively large Anglo enclaves/communities there.

Most immigrants weren't anglo. Wouldn't they keep their native languages or adopt spanish if they settle in isolated communities in Latin America?
 
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