AH Challenge: Alternate Turkic Homelands

Possible Turkic homeland

  • Stay in Anatolia

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mesopotamia

    Votes: 8 25.0%
  • Crimea

    Votes: 5 15.6%
  • Central Asia

    Votes: 14 43.8%
  • Syria

    Votes: 5 15.6%

  • Total voters
    32
Recently, I've read (and commented on one of the) different TL's tackling a single topic: a very successful Byzantine Empire, where they defeated the Seljuk Turks and maintained their territory.

Here's the challenge: A possible alternate homeland for them (the Seljuk Turks), and I added a poll for the possible choices.

And never to forget the reason you chose the said place as their alternate homeland.
 
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Depends on when they are pushed back. Because if it's an era where the Cumans are weak the turks are probably gonna end up going north whereas if they lose manzikert there is still a significant seljuk empire outside of Anatolia which they could probably just stay in, in which case my guess is that they would end up ruling Mesopotamia and Iran (although in that case I think they are liable to be Iranianized).
 
if they lose manzikert there is still a significant seljuk empire outside of Anatolia which they could probably just stay in, in which case my guess is that they would end up ruling Mesopotamia and Iran (although in that case I think they are liable to be Iranianized).
If they lost the battle of Manizkert and decided to invade Mesopotamia, what will happen to their language, by the way?
 
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If they lost the battle of Manizkert and decided to invade Mesopotamia, what will happen to their language, by the way?

What do you mean invade mesopotamia? They basically own it. I mean it's technically Run by the Abbassids but the Seljuks had essentially set them up as the rough equivalent of being the shogun of Abbassid territory. But yeah, since they also controlled Iran though I expect them to adopt Iranian culture after awhile.
 
What do you mean invade mesopotamia? They basically own it. I mean it's technically Run by the Abbassids but the Seljuks had essentially set them up as the rough equivalent of being the shogun of Abbassid territory. But yeah, since they also controlled Iran though I expect them to adopt Iranian culture after awhile.
Oh! I stand corrected, apologies. So, the Seljuk Turks who controlled Iran (and Mesopoatmia) are Persianized, so there will be an intermarriage between them and the native Persians?
 
Oh! I stand corrected, apologies. So, the Seljuk Turks who controlled Iran (and Mesopoatmia) are Persianized, so there will be an intermarriage between them and the native Persians?

That and just the simple fact that it's impossible to remain a little oasis of Turkish in a sea of Farsi and Arabic with there being many native elites still in a position of power. And I think they will largely adopt go with the former since at the time while Arabic was also prestigious it didn't have the kind of population of speakers that Farsi would in their empire.
 
That and just the simple fact that it's impossible to remain a little oasis of Turkish in a sea of Farsi and Arabic with there being many native elites still in a position of power. And I think they will largely adopt go with the former since at the time while Arabic was also prestigious it didn't have the kind of population of speakers that Farsi would in their empire.
There are relatively small groups of people who speak dialects related to [Anatolian] Turkish still living as "oases" amongst the Iranians and Arabs (from north-eastern Iran all of the way west into parts of Syria and Jordan), in the present day, but they're generally labelled' Turkomans' (like those of the Seljuks' relatives who remained in Turkestan) rather than 'Turks'. For that matter, IIRC, there are actually still some unassimilated Turkoman groups in the south-east of modern Turkey itself. However I think that these generally descend from bands who retained a nomadic pastoral lifestyle until recently, rather than from the related bands who settled as an upper class in the more settled population.
 
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Clarification on the title of the poll...

Instead of "Possible Turkic homeland", it should have been "Alternate Turkic homeland"
 

katchen

Banned
That and just the simple fact that it's impossible to remain a little oasis of Turkish in a sea of Farsi and Arabic with there being many native elites still in a position of power. And I think they will largely adopt go with the former since at the time while Arabic was also prestigious it didn't have the kind of population of speakers that Farsi would in their empire.


Oh, reallly?

There are actually quite a few Turks in Mesopotamia. The only quesiton is, will there be more of them?
World Directory of Minorities

Middle East MRG Directory –> Iraq –> Turkomans Turkomans

Updated April 2008
Profile

The Iraqi Turkomans claim to be the third largest ethnic group in Iraq, residing almost exclusively in the north, in an arc of towns and villages stretching from Tel Afar, west of Mosul, through Mosul, Erbil, Altun Kopru, Kirkuk, Tuz Khurmatu, Kifri and Khaniqin. Before the war that began in March 2003, there were anything between 600,000 and 2 million Turkomans, the former figure being the conservative estimate of outside observers and the latter a Turkoman claim. They are probably descended from Turkic garrisons or, in the Shi'a case, fugitives from early Ottoman control, although they claim to be descendents of the earlier Seljuq Turks. Approximately 60 per cent are Sunni, while the balance are Ithna'ashari or other Shi'a. Shi'as tend to live at the southern end of Turkoman settlement, and also tend to be more rural. Tiny extreme Shi'a communities (for example, Sarliyya and Ibrahimiya) exist in Tuz Khurmatu, Ta'uq, Qara Tapa, Taza Khurmatu, Bashir and Tisin, and Tel Afar. The Turkomans, speak a Turkish dialect, and have preserved their language (despite a strong linguistic Arabization policy by Saddam Hussein) but are no longer tribally organized.
 

PhilippeO

Banned
Oh, reallly?

There are actually quite a few Turks in Mesopotamia. The only quesiton is, will there be more of them?

But Turkoman didn't live in "a little oasis surrounded by Arab and Persians". they have contact with Turks at Annatolia / Ottoman Empire.

They are probably descended from Turkic garrisons or, in the Shi'a case, fugitives from early Ottoman control, although they claim to be descendents of the earlier Seljuq Turks.
 
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