AH Challenge: A Greek Orthodox people north of the Caucasus

This is a follow-up to this thread.

Your challenge, should you accept it, is to have a group of Kipchaks convert to Greek Orthodox Christianity during the time of the Byzantine Empire. Not before, not after. In addition, this group should settle down and reside anywhere in the northwestern Caucasus. Also, these Kipchaks should not be part of the Golden Horde (which would be a give-in). Bonus points if you can have this group survive beyond the fall of the Byzantine Empire.
 
This thread is incorrectly titled. It should read "An Orthodox Christian people north of the Caucasus" or "An Eastern Orthodox Christian people north of the Caucusus" unless of course this thread was referring to settlement by ethnic Hellenes of Orthodox Christian faith in the region. Eastern Orthodox denotes a religious group as does Roman Catholic. Greek Orthodox should be understood in the sense of Irish-Catholic.

(Of course, I am aware that unlike the RCC, the Eastern Orthodox churches are not as unified, being somewhat autnonomous and quite decentralized. That the Ecumenical Patriarch is not a Pope, and there are many national (or ethnic churches), so in reality the situation is not as simple, but in principle, while any one can become an Othodox Christian, one must be Greek (or Serbian, Russian, etc.) to be Greek Orthodox (or Serbian Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, etc.) just as Irish Catholics are by definition of Irish descent.)

For a people to be Greek Orthodox, they would have to either be Hellenic or else integrated into a Hellenistic empire. Non-Greeks living under Byzantium, the last Greco-Roman empire, might be considered Greek Orthodox in the sense that they belong to the national church, under the Patriarchate of Constantinople (also, despite not being ethnically Greek, they would be fairly Hellenized in language or culture but of disparate racial or ethnic origins). Remember what I said about Eastern Orthodox Christendom not being centralized like Roman Catholicism, and the various national churches. Because you appear to be mentioning Kipchaks (a non-Greek people) from north of the Caucusus (an area outside the Byzantine world), they would not qualify as *Greek* Orthodox in either an ethnic sense or as part of a Hellenistic empire.

(By Greek Orthodox you might instead be referring to liturgical language as opposed to ethnic affiliation, but note that unlike the Roman Catholic church which prescribed Latin as the official liturgical and scriptural language until recently, Eastern Christendom made no such language requirement. There is no reason why medieval Greek, the dialect in use by the Byzantines, would have to be the liturgical language over Old Church Slavonic or any other language.)

So what is the point of all this nitpicking? Well if you really mean an Orthodox Christian people north of the Caucasus, then this might not be AH at all, as many Georgians and Russians were Orthodox Christians. I do not know what religion the Kipchaks followed...
 
K, so maybe I was not a bit clear. I am referring to Greek being used as a liturgical language here, as well as having these Kipchak people Hellenized to a degree, if you want to think of it that way. Even if it means integration into the Byzantine Empire at first, and retaining a good deal of it when the Byzantine Empire falls. I am not talking Georgians and Russians here - those are a different story altogether - and it is AH in the sense that we're focusing on the Kipchaks, a Turkic people, here.

(BTW, thanks for bumping it! :D)
 
Maybe the Kipchaks invade ala the Bulgars and Magyars, but unlike how the Bulgars were assimilated into Slavic culture the Kipchaks assimilate into Greek culture, maybe because they make their capital in Greek-populated lands or for some other reason. They soon convert to Orthodox Christianity (with Russian and Greek influence to do so) and because of their partial Hellenization, use Greek as the liturgical language.
 
Maybe the Kipchaks invade ala the Bulgars and Magyars, but unlike how the Bulgars were assimilated into Slavic culture the Kipchaks assimilate into Greek culture, maybe because they make their capital in Greek-populated lands or for some other reason. They soon convert to Orthodox Christianity (with Russian and Greek influence to do so) and because of their partial Hellenization, use Greek as the liturgical language.

That sounds interesting. Care to elaborate?
 

Susano

Banned
This thread is incorrectly titled. It should read "An Orthodox Christian people north of the Caucasus" or "An Eastern Orthodox Christian people north of the Caucusus" unless of course this thread was referring to settlement by ethnic Hellenes of Orthodox Christian faith in the region. Eastern Orthodox denotes a religious group as does Roman Catholic. Greek Orthodox should be understood in the sense of Irish-Catholic.

Yeah, well, not quite. <Nationality>-Orthodox is different from "an orthodox <Nationality>", and refers to what particular orthodox church a person belongs to. As you said, they are not united. So, a Russian-Orthodox is any member of the Russian-Orthodox Chruch, regognicing the Patriarch of Moscow, regardless of that persons nationality and ethnicity. Likewise, a Serbian-Orthodox is any member of teh Serbian-Orthodox Church, regognicing teh Serbian Patriatch, again irrelevant of ethnicity or nationality.

So there can be Greek-Orthodox Kipchaks, if the do not form an own church, and instead become part of the Greek-Orthodox Church, directly regognicing the Patriarch of Constantinople.
 
So there can be Greek-Orthodox Kipchaks, if the do not form an own church, and instead become part of the Greek-Orthodox Church, directly regognicing the Patriarch of Constantinople.

You, my friend, have hit the nail on the head. :D
 
That sounds interesting. Care to elaborate?

The Kipchaks invaded Romania IOTL. Let's say they are driven out of their eastern holdings by another power (Volga Bulgaria, Kievan Rus', Kimeks maybe) and invade further west, conquering Bulgaria and parts of Greece. They establish their capital somewhere with a Greek majority, and before long the Kipchak ruling class is speaking Greek. This trickles down, and the Kipchaks eventually convert to Orthodox Christianity, and since the nobles already speak Greek, they use that as their liturgical language.
 
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